5 ms·

As someone who researched this, you have three options: Golden Visas (expensive and being phased out, but good if you have ~$500k sitting around in cash), Ances

As someone who researched this, you have three options: Golden Visas (expensive and being phased out, but good if you have ~$500k sitting around in cash), Ancestry (a recent direct relative who was a citizen of that country), or asylum. For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option, but one that cannot be exercised until you have demonstrable proof you’d come to harm here in the States. That’ll be easier for folks in Red States whose policies are already openly hostile to our mere existence, but you’d likely get pushback since there are other states to move to and the Federal policies remain unchanged at this time. Right now, your best bet is to sit, analyze, and prepare. Get your passport and make copies of any identity documentation. Be ready to leave at a moment’s notice, because we don’t have the luxury of believing that man, his party, or his electors are just joking around or otherwise not serious. EDIT: one other thing you can do is get the hell out of a Red State ASAP and move into one of the “Blue Fortresses” of New England or the Pacific Coast. Equality Map has a good breakdown of states’ laws and protections broken down into LGBTQ-specific categories, and that’s going to be of critical import if Federal protections are tossed out. Those areas also have the added benefit of plentiful immediate transportation options out of the country, either by land, sea, or air if need be.

0x3444ac53 2y ago
What do I do with no degree and very little money? I feel so trapped here.
- Johanx64 2y ago
  If you have little money and no degree and are incapable of making it in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, where software engineers are better paid than anywhere else in the world... you will be trapped literally anywhere else, especially in a foreign country where they are under no obligation to speak to you in english.
  - SadTrombone 2y ago
    Not everyone on HN is a software engineer.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  Asylum is an option, if you can prove harm. In the meantime, work on your qualifiers: education, income, etc. Unfortunately, no country is going to willingly take someone they feel cannot contribute to their society, so you need to prove to them that you will.
  - 0x3444ac53 2y ago
    You can look through my recent post if you want, but I can contribute if given then chance. It's just hard to prove to people that I'm worth taking that chance on.
- jkman 2y ago
  Look man, nations don't have any obligations to the citizens of other countries. Why would any other country want to take in another uneducated and poor individual?
  - 0x3444ac53 2y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware. I don't need my own demotivating sentiment reflected back to me, thanks.
- Muromec 2y ago
  You don't need a degree to get working visa in the Netherlands (source: I don't have a degree). You can even use Dutch-US treaty to basically hire yourself.
  - pumanoir 2y ago
    (Honest question) Can you share how to use Dutch-US treaty to basically hire oneself?
    - Muromec 2y ago
      Official source: https://ind.nl/en/residence-permits/work/residence-permit-self-employed-person https://ind.nl/en/residence-permits/work/residence-permit-se... I'm not privileged enough to have first-handle experience and have the normal knowledge worker visa, but I worked with a dude, who had this setup.
Epa095 2y ago
You forgot work visa completely. Many places have a skilled-worker visa, where if you have higher education AND a job offer you get a work visa.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  I didn’t forget work visas, I just opted to exclude them given their typically steep requirements and how they’re typically sourced through the employer. That takes it out of your direct control, as opposed to the others I mentioned. My intention was to empower readers to take charge of their outcomes, something work visas aren’t reliable for in most cases (though in HN readers’ cases, it could be a valid one; I will be curious if any big tech employers offer relocation and visa assistance in the coming years).
  - whyever 2y ago
    Not sure what you mean by "sourced through the employer". Usually you need to have enough qualification and a job offer to apply for a work visa that is bound to the employing company for two years. Switching jobs requires reapplying. Afterwards, you can usually get a work visa that is not bound to a specific company, and less time limited. Normally it's you applying for the visa, but in some cases the company hiring you can file the application, which can drastically reduce the time you have to wait, but cedes some control. Of course, all this depends on your nationality and the country where you are applying.
  - Epa095 2y ago
    For the HN crown I think you should consider skilled work-visa if you want to move, and I don't think it's unrealistic. You will probably need a job wherever you move anyway, this just means you need to find that job before you move. Without doxing myself completely, I know several North-Americans with that kind of visa here in Europe. You need to apply for a position and get it. Then you need to apply for the visa. That can take a couple of months to process, which sounds like a lot, but remember that in many European countries this is on par with, or less than, the notice period for changing a job. So for the employer it won't make a big difference. You will probably have to pay for moving yourself though.
araes 2y ago
Having done this the first time Trump got elected, there is actually another alternative. Girlfriend and I ended up moving over to Morocco on a temporary visa. That didn't end up working. However, I ended up then moving by myself from country to country for about a year, becoming a nomad and mostly living out of a backpack and sleeping bag. Basically walking and hitchhiking across portions of Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia. Admittedly, this is rather challenging. However, many areas of the Earth are "ok" with 30-180 day stays, and the experience itself can be rather life changing. Got to go and teach children in Palestine because of that choice, which felt like at least contributing slightly to solving the issues in the Middle East. Here's the list as far as how long they'll allow legal stays per country (for Americans, since American perspective). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_United_States_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_United_S... The other issue though, is if you're looking now, you're already kind of behind. Google says the numbers have doubled since 1999, and I've heard much larger numbers (like 17 million in the last three years). If you believe World Population Review, then there's about 8 million registered expats existing abroad. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-expats-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-... Here's another table from Wikipedia that "mostly" lines up with similar population percentages. Notably, those who have declared residency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_Sta...
- carlob 2y ago
  I'm sure Morocco was fun and there are loads of really beautiful spots to visit, but I don't think it's a place that rates very high in democracy or in personal freedoms. Furthermore it's extremely sexist and somewhat racist. It would definitely not be my choice if I was actually persecuted in my country.
carlob 2y ago
> For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option Do you have any data points on this, I remember reading that some Americans have tried applying for asylum in Canada, but no one has ever been accepted.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  I do not, because there haven’t been sufficient points shared reflecting US -> Elsewhere asylum seekers outside of High Value Assets (think Snowden). That said, I have heard anecdotally that the Canadian government would consider LGBTQ status for asylum - though again, a US Citizen seeking asylum is a relative novelty in general, so I have no concrete data. As with all plans, this will not withstand enemy contact. You will need to adapt it to survive as required. I just honestly hope it doesn’t get to that point.
XajniN 2y ago
Being from the USA, you cannot get asylum in the EU, no one is in danger there. Try Russia.

0x3444ac53 2y ago

What do I do with no degree and very little money? I feel so trapped here.

Johanx64 2y ago
If you have little money and no degree and are incapable of making it in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, where software engineers are better paid than anywhere else in the world... you will be trapped literally anywhere else, especially in a foreign country where they are under no obligation to speak to you in english.
- SadTrombone 2y ago
  Not everyone on HN is a software engineer.
stego-tech 2y ago
Asylum is an option, if you can prove harm. In the meantime, work on your qualifiers: education, income, etc. Unfortunately, no country is going to willingly take someone they feel cannot contribute to their society, so you need to prove to them that you will.
- 0x3444ac53 2y ago
  You can look through my recent post if you want, but I can contribute if given then chance. It's just hard to prove to people that I'm worth taking that chance on.
jkman 2y ago
Look man, nations don't have any obligations to the citizens of other countries. Why would any other country want to take in another uneducated and poor individual?
- 0x3444ac53 2y ago
  Yeah, I'm aware. I don't need my own demotivating sentiment reflected back to me, thanks.
Muromec 2y ago
You don't need a degree to get working visa in the Netherlands (source: I don't have a degree). You can even use Dutch-US treaty to basically hire yourself.
- pumanoir 2y ago
  (Honest question) Can you share how to use Dutch-US treaty to basically hire oneself?
  - Muromec 2y ago
    Official source: https://ind.nl/en/residence-permits/work/residence-permit-self-employed-person https://ind.nl/en/residence-permits/work/residence-permit-se... I'm not privileged enough to have first-handle experience and have the normal knowledge worker visa, but I worked with a dude, who had this setup.

Epa095 2y ago

You forgot work visa completely. Many places have a skilled-worker visa, where if you have higher education AND a job offer you get a work visa.

stego-tech 2y ago
I didn’t forget work visas, I just opted to exclude them given their typically steep requirements and how they’re typically sourced through the employer. That takes it out of your direct control, as opposed to the others I mentioned. My intention was to empower readers to take charge of their outcomes, something work visas aren’t reliable for in most cases (though in HN readers’ cases, it could be a valid one; I will be curious if any big tech employers offer relocation and visa assistance in the coming years).
- whyever 2y ago
  Not sure what you mean by "sourced through the employer". Usually you need to have enough qualification and a job offer to apply for a work visa that is bound to the employing company for two years. Switching jobs requires reapplying. Afterwards, you can usually get a work visa that is not bound to a specific company, and less time limited. Normally it's you applying for the visa, but in some cases the company hiring you can file the application, which can drastically reduce the time you have to wait, but cedes some control. Of course, all this depends on your nationality and the country where you are applying.
- Epa095 2y ago
  For the HN crown I think you should consider skilled work-visa if you want to move, and I don't think it's unrealistic. You will probably need a job wherever you move anyway, this just means you need to find that job before you move. Without doxing myself completely, I know several North-Americans with that kind of visa here in Europe. You need to apply for a position and get it. Then you need to apply for the visa. That can take a couple of months to process, which sounds like a lot, but remember that in many European countries this is on par with, or less than, the notice period for changing a job. So for the employer it won't make a big difference. You will probably have to pay for moving yourself though.

araes 2y ago

Having done this the first time Trump got elected, there is actually another alternative. Girlfriend and I ended up moving over to Morocco on a temporary visa. That didn't end up working. However, I ended up then moving by myself from country to country for about a year, becoming a nomad and mostly living out of a backpack and sleeping bag. Basically walking and hitchhiking across portions of Africa, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia. Admittedly, this is rather challenging. However, many areas of the Earth are "ok" with 30-180 day stays, and the experience itself can be rather life changing. Got to go and teach children in Palestine because of that choice, which felt like at least contributing slightly to solving the issues in the Middle East. Here's the list as far as how long they'll allow legal stays per country (for Americans, since American perspective). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_United_States_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_United_S... The other issue though, is if you're looking now, you're already kind of behind. Google says the numbers have doubled since 1999, and I've heard much larger numbers (like 17 million in the last three years). If you believe World Population Review, then there's about 8 million registered expats existing abroad. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-expats-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/american-... Here's another table from Wikipedia that "mostly" lines up with similar population percentages. Notably, those who have declared residency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_United_Sta...

carlob 2y ago
I'm sure Morocco was fun and there are loads of really beautiful spots to visit, but I don't think it's a place that rates very high in democracy or in personal freedoms. Furthermore it's extremely sexist and somewhat racist. It would definitely not be my choice if I was actually persecuted in my country.

carlob 2y ago

> For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option Do you have any data points on this, I remember reading that some Americans have tried applying for asylum in Canada, but no one has ever been accepted.

stego-tech 2y ago
I do not, because there haven’t been sufficient points shared reflecting US -> Elsewhere asylum seekers outside of High Value Assets (think Snowden). That said, I have heard anecdotally that the Canadian government would consider LGBTQ status for asylum - though again, a US Citizen seeking asylum is a relative novelty in general, so I have no concrete data. As with all plans, this will not withstand enemy contact. You will need to adapt it to survive as required. I just honestly hope it doesn’t get to that point.

XajniN 2y ago

Being from the USA, you cannot get asylum in the EU, no one is in danger there. Try Russia.