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I'm surprised more people hadn't noticed this switch during this campaign cycle. It seemed pretty clear to me, especially coming off the heals of a pandemic res

I'm surprised more people hadn't noticed this switch during this campaign cycle. It seemed pretty clear to me, especially coming off the heals of a pandemic response that saw the democratic party flip so dramatically to blindly trusting big pharma and reaching for law & order as a pandemic response strategy. The best explanation I heard recently was that Trump in 2016 made a play to pull working class Americans into the Republican party. The party basically clinched its teeth and looked the other way, knowing that they either accept the voters or risk a real problem. Since then the Republican party has largely embraced the working class while the Democratic party continues to favor more and more towards the rich voters and massive corporations, finishing off the full party flip.

dtquad 2y ago
>Since then the Republican party has largely embraced the working class while the Democratic party continues to favor more and more towards the rich voters and massive corporations, finishing off the full party flip. Insane to say this when Trump and Republicans want to lower taxes for the rich and even suggest "abolishing the IRS".
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Cutting taxes on the rich helps the rich, it doesn't directly hurt the working class. More importantly, Trump and the Republicans embracing the working class has everything to do with rhetoric and who they target for voting and very little to do with policies they actually enact. Most voters end up caring about what is said and pay little attention to what is done.
  - wholinator2 2y ago
    > it doesn't directly hurt the working class Until the programs and benefits that the working class relies on are cut because "who's gonna pay for it?!" And "we've gotta reduce the deficit!". Then the working class will be directly and painfully effected because they are the ones that need tax credits and Healthcare options and foodstamps and support! Who's gonna pay for it? The people that already have enough! I understand the human urge to hold on to everything you have. But when did we stop caring about contributing to a functioning society?
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      That's all totally possible, sure. But those are down stream impacts that are influenced heavily by other factors and by how people react to a change in taxes, for this example. Its way more complicated than that. > I understand the human urge to hold on to everything you have. But when did we stop caring about contributing to a functioning society? I'd ask when we decided that a functioning society was only possible with a powerful government collecting and redistributing wealth. Neither are required in my opinion, though we likely couldn't be as centralized as we are today without large governments and taxes.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  It's a matter of fact that Trump has pulled a huge portion of the working class vote from the Democrats You probably think the working class is just stupid. I think the working class is way smarter than you think. If you genuinely explore that possibility you will understand clearly why Trump won.
  - tsimionescu 2y ago
    I'm sure we'll see a flourishing of the working class under the Republicans, then. We'll see Trump going to bat for unions in their fights against Corporate America, we'll see minimum wage increases throughout the country, maternal leave, and much more. Or, people have fallen for a demagogue selling them a cheap lie (it's not corporate America keeping you in low paying jobs despite massive productivity and profitability, it's those damn immigrants stealing your jobs!).
    - cynicalpeace 2y ago
      You're trying to make it cut and dry that Dems good Repubs bad for the working class. And working class too dumb to know it. It's simply not true and we can go through every line item and add nuance. > Trump going to bat for unions Union jobs have been exported to other countries > we'll see minimum wage increases No taxes on tips > maternal leave Higher child tax credit, and generally pro-family These things are not as simple as you make it to be. Maybe you disagree with Trump voters, but that does not make them stupid and gullible.
      - altpaddle 2y ago
        > Higher child tax credit, and generally pro-family You mean like the one that democrats proposed and republicans in the senate killed?
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Getting a block of voters to support you is very different from actually doing right by those voters in the long run. If the Republican party doesn't end up doing much, or anything, to help the working class voters that Trump brought to the table they'll lose those voters eventually. Its just a lagging indicator since it first has to become clear that the party isn't actually on those voters' side.
- Izkata 2y ago
  Trump wants to lower taxes for everyone, not just the rich. Which will have more of an effect on the working class.
- XajniN 2y ago
  Tax is always paid by the workers. “The rich” are not the problem, they own the businesses that create jobs and add value to the economy. The problem is the government that can never have enough. You need to reduce the need for tax money, not increase the amount paid.
techfeathers 2y ago
I do have to say, that I'm very curious to see what the next four years look like. The strange thing about the working class people that Trump brought over, is I think many of them expect Government action/intervention in their lives, and a large part of the Republican party still seems to be pretty hands off, de-regulation, attack the welfare state, tax cuts for billionaires. So I don't want to immediately just dismiss the idea that Republicans are the party of "blue collar workers", and if they really can bring manufacturing back, they'll be heroes, but I'm curious how patient the base will be for it. If they really do cut $2 trillion from the federal budget, there will be big time economic losers. It seems like a geo-economic realignment to bring back manufacturing could take more than four years, and it seems hard to believe there won't be economic costs. will they be patient? Will that geo-economic realignment even help the current generation, and can they stay in power long enough to fulfill it?

dtquad 2y ago

>Since then the Republican party has largely embraced the working class while the Democratic party continues to favor more and more towards the rich voters and massive corporations, finishing off the full party flip. Insane to say this when Trump and Republicans want to lower taxes for the rich and even suggest "abolishing the IRS".

_heimdall 2y ago
Cutting taxes on the rich helps the rich, it doesn't directly hurt the working class. More importantly, Trump and the Republicans embracing the working class has everything to do with rhetoric and who they target for voting and very little to do with policies they actually enact. Most voters end up caring about what is said and pay little attention to what is done.
- wholinator2 2y ago
  > it doesn't directly hurt the working class Until the programs and benefits that the working class relies on are cut because "who's gonna pay for it?!" And "we've gotta reduce the deficit!". Then the working class will be directly and painfully effected because they are the ones that need tax credits and Healthcare options and foodstamps and support! Who's gonna pay for it? The people that already have enough! I understand the human urge to hold on to everything you have. But when did we stop caring about contributing to a functioning society?
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    That's all totally possible, sure. But those are down stream impacts that are influenced heavily by other factors and by how people react to a change in taxes, for this example. Its way more complicated than that. > I understand the human urge to hold on to everything you have. But when did we stop caring about contributing to a functioning society? I'd ask when we decided that a functioning society was only possible with a powerful government collecting and redistributing wealth. Neither are required in my opinion, though we likely couldn't be as centralized as we are today without large governments and taxes.
cynicalpeace 2y ago
It's a matter of fact that Trump has pulled a huge portion of the working class vote from the Democrats You probably think the working class is just stupid. I think the working class is way smarter than you think. If you genuinely explore that possibility you will understand clearly why Trump won.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  I'm sure we'll see a flourishing of the working class under the Republicans, then. We'll see Trump going to bat for unions in their fights against Corporate America, we'll see minimum wage increases throughout the country, maternal leave, and much more. Or, people have fallen for a demagogue selling them a cheap lie (it's not corporate America keeping you in low paying jobs despite massive productivity and profitability, it's those damn immigrants stealing your jobs!).
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    You're trying to make it cut and dry that Dems good Repubs bad for the working class. And working class too dumb to know it. It's simply not true and we can go through every line item and add nuance. > Trump going to bat for unions Union jobs have been exported to other countries > we'll see minimum wage increases No taxes on tips > maternal leave Higher child tax credit, and generally pro-family These things are not as simple as you make it to be. Maybe you disagree with Trump voters, but that does not make them stupid and gullible.
    - altpaddle 2y ago
      > Higher child tax credit, and generally pro-family You mean like the one that democrats proposed and republicans in the senate killed?
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Getting a block of voters to support you is very different from actually doing right by those voters in the long run. If the Republican party doesn't end up doing much, or anything, to help the working class voters that Trump brought to the table they'll lose those voters eventually. Its just a lagging indicator since it first has to become clear that the party isn't actually on those voters' side.
Izkata 2y ago
Trump wants to lower taxes for everyone, not just the rich. Which will have more of an effect on the working class.
XajniN 2y ago
Tax is always paid by the workers. “The rich” are not the problem, they own the businesses that create jobs and add value to the economy. The problem is the government that can never have enough. You need to reduce the need for tax money, not increase the amount paid.

techfeathers 2y ago

I do have to say, that I'm very curious to see what the next four years look like. The strange thing about the working class people that Trump brought over, is I think many of them expect Government action/intervention in their lives, and a large part of the Republican party still seems to be pretty hands off, de-regulation, attack the welfare state, tax cuts for billionaires. So I don't want to immediately just dismiss the idea that Republicans are the party of "blue collar workers", and if they really can bring manufacturing back, they'll be heroes, but I'm curious how patient the base will be for it. If they really do cut $2 trillion from the federal budget, there will be big time economic losers. It seems like a geo-economic realignment to bring back manufacturing could take more than four years, and it seems hard to believe there won't be economic costs. will they be patient? Will that geo-economic realignment even help the current generation, and can they stay in power long enough to fulfill it?