5 ms·

> The border being flooded is terrifying. ... > And the democrats want to still focus on identity politics. Does typing this out not cause the slightest pang

> The border being flooded is terrifying. ... > And the democrats want to still focus on identity politics. Does typing this out not cause the slightest pang of cognitive dissonance?

m0llusk 2y ago
Add to that the Democrats have been far more successful with apprehending and deporting illegal immigrants. This is a struggle among people trapped in their own bubbles, disconnected from and uninterested in reality or relevant metrics.
- nemo44x 2y ago
  I don’t know if that’s true or not but “sanctuary cities”, “Abolish ICE”, blue city mayors complaining about a migrant crisis, and Venezuelan gangs taking over apartment complexes don’t inspire confidence.
nemo44x 2y ago
If the issue was immigrants in general then possibly. But it’s about illegal immigration specifically and complete disregard for law and order when it comes to the millions crossing the border illegally and being encouraged to do so in many cases or no pressure to deport anyhow. Turns out that’s bad policy.
- ubertaco 2y ago
  By the actual numbers, illegal immigrants are by far the group with the lowest rate of felony, violent crime, property crime, and drug-related crime: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-offending-rate-lower-us-born-citizen-rate https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o... The idea of illegal immigration being "complete disregard for law and order" is based solely in feelings of fear or animosity, not in facts.
throwaway817472 2y ago
This is precisely his point. Illegal immigration isn’t about identity politics, as it has nothing to do with race or gender or disability, etc. Your comment turned this into a conversation about identity politics.
- Rebelgecko 2y ago
  Most discussions of immigration I've seen seem to be fixated on a subset of illegal immigrants. i.e. talk of border walls (only between US/Mexico, never seen discussion of US/Canada) when most illegal immigrants are coming via boring methods like through ports of entry and on commercial airplanes.
  - throwaway817472 2y ago
    That’s fascinating. I definitely agree that there seems to be a fixation on the southern border. Do you have a source showing that a majority of illegal immigrants are entering through ports of entry or commercial flights? Would love to read it.
    - Rebelgecko 2y ago
      I didn't find more recent numbers than this in the minute I spent looking but I imagine they're available if you dig around: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...
      - kgwgk 2y ago
        That’s about 2016-2017. Estimates of illegal crossings in the South border were below 200k per year, I think, but over 800k last year.
        Rebelgecko 2y ago
        Wasn't 2016 when the country was at peak "build the wall and make Mexico pay for it"? Regardless, do you have numbers for 2023 that include visa overstays, for comparison purposes?
starfezzy 2y ago
Implying a contradiction reveals the critic’s own identity politics perspective. The permanent, irreversible demographic shift that conveniently favors Dem politics is only one of the many, many problems caused by turning a blind eye to unprecedented hordes of inherently law-disregarding third-worlders taking advantage of our weak border enforcement.

> The border being flooded is terrifying. ... > And the democrats want to still focus on identity politics. Does typing this out not cause the slightest pang of cognitive dissonance?

m0llusk 2y ago

Add to that the Democrats have been far more successful with apprehending and deporting illegal immigrants. This is a struggle among people trapped in their own bubbles, disconnected from and uninterested in reality or relevant metrics.

nemo44x 2y ago
I don’t know if that’s true or not but “sanctuary cities”, “Abolish ICE”, blue city mayors complaining about a migrant crisis, and Venezuelan gangs taking over apartment complexes don’t inspire confidence.

nemo44x 2y ago

If the issue was immigrants in general then possibly. But it’s about illegal immigration specifically and complete disregard for law and order when it comes to the millions crossing the border illegally and being encouraged to do so in many cases or no pressure to deport anyhow. Turns out that’s bad policy.

ubertaco 2y ago
By the actual numbers, illegal immigrants are by far the group with the lowest rate of felony, violent crime, property crime, and drug-related crime: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-offending-rate-lower-us-born-citizen-rate https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/undocumented-immigrant-o... The idea of illegal immigration being "complete disregard for law and order" is based solely in feelings of fear or animosity, not in facts.

throwaway817472 2y ago

This is precisely his point. Illegal immigration isn’t about identity politics, as it has nothing to do with race or gender or disability, etc. Your comment turned this into a conversation about identity politics.

Rebelgecko 2y ago
Most discussions of immigration I've seen seem to be fixated on a subset of illegal immigrants. i.e. talk of border walls (only between US/Mexico, never seen discussion of US/Canada) when most illegal immigrants are coming via boring methods like through ports of entry and on commercial airplanes.
- throwaway817472 2y ago
  That’s fascinating. I definitely agree that there seems to be a fixation on the southern border. Do you have a source showing that a majority of illegal immigrants are entering through ports of entry or commercial flights? Would love to read it.
  - Rebelgecko 2y ago
    I didn't find more recent numbers than this in the minute I spent looking but I imagine they're available if you dig around: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...
    - kgwgk 2y ago
      That’s about 2016-2017. Estimates of illegal crossings in the South border were below 200k per year, I think, but over 800k last year.
      - Rebelgecko 2y ago
        Wasn't 2016 when the country was at peak "build the wall and make Mexico pay for it"? Regardless, do you have numbers for 2023 that include visa overstays, for comparison purposes?

starfezzy 2y ago

Implying a contradiction reveals the critic’s own identity politics perspective. The permanent, irreversible demographic shift that conveniently favors Dem politics is only one of the many, many problems caused by turning a blind eye to unprecedented hordes of inherently law-disregarding third-worlders taking advantage of our weak border enforcement.