4 ms·

The USA is probably one of the countries that is most tolerant of illegal immigration. I doubt there is a good alternative in Europe.

bbor 2y ago
Yes but many European countries process asylum applications. For software engineers, you may be able to just migrate legally using a work visa anyway — even the notoriously picky New Zealand has a special program just for us, though it’s limited to Auckland de facto. Sending love and can relate, original commenter. I wouldn’t pick anywhere in Eastern Europe, that’s for sure. Get prepared for lots of “it’s just a little fascist rhetoric, he doesn’t really mean it when he says all trans people are pedophiles and he’s gonna deport legal immigrants who seem illegal” comments
- Muromec 2y ago
  Don't do asylum, asylum is the worst thing ever to do in Europe now.
  - bbor 2y ago
    Why…? In all of Europe?
    - Muromec 2y ago
      Being asylum seeker is not cool at all, as you don't have agency. If you are asking for worker's visa, you will get it (or very unlikely not get it) and be done with it in a few weeks. Then you just live your life normally, have access to job market, pay taxes and all that. Maybe even have a nice tax deal. If you submit for protection, then government will consider your application in maybe 2 years, but no promise (subtext: we don't want you here anyways, you are not a priority). While it's not approved, your access to labor market is limited (because they take your jobs!). If you are a tech worker with a visa, you may learn the language or not, do it fast, slow and decide yourself. If you are a status holder, you have an obligation and a case worker. Generally speaking you have a case worker and government wants to know you are still in the country and how you are doing. Now since you can't have a job, you will also have a problem finding a normal free market rent in a place that suits your vibes, so you will be at the mercy of the government as well. Happening be happening in places where a lot of people with no access to labor market are concentrated and conditions will be, lets just say cheap. Once you are processed you may get social housing. There isn't a whole lot of it sitting free in the center of the capital 5 mins aways from the you dream tech job. Now as to all of Europe? Probably not all of it, but affluent tech worker probably wants to go to a nice part of it, where everyone also wants to be, including all the actual refugees from the previous three wars and people who joined them on the way and put the foot into the door and don't want to be kicked out. System can handle it in case of emergency, but then the flow has to subside and thing have to be back to normal. Well having constant inflow is a new normal, so what does political body do with it? Downscale and slow down to throttle it. On the off chance of picking the place that isn't nice for everybody's liking, the burueacracy may be specifically optimized to reject everyone and not speak languages. Bureacracy is also very local and doesn't always match political speeches of the supreme leader whenever you agree with them or not. Do the normal tech visa, it's fine.
  - alibarber 2y ago
    Reading a lot of these comments it does feel like the Michael Scott "declaring bancruptcy" approach but with asylum. For starters, you'd be quite limited in your personal freedoms until the application is processed [years], unlikely to have the right to work, or the right to leave the country you just landed in without the application being automatically cancelled. If, and really I can't see this happening, as a US citizen, you were to be granted asylum; then you ever travelling back to the US for any reason would make it likely that you would immediately lose the status (hence right to work, etc), likely with a future entry ban thrown in on top. Work visas in the European countries I know of are not at all like the US H1B/Green Card style system. There are plenty of Americans here who just did it the 'normal way' and got a job offer and filed the paperwork for that [weeks]
    - bbor 2y ago
      Yeah, asylum isn’t great. But Fascism is serious stuff. I recommend reading the stories of the great scientists who left the third reich as it was ramping up—who faced discrimination, loneliness, poverty, and severe career setbacks-and comparing them to stories of the scientists who stayed… I know which side I’d rather be on. Regardless, I don’t think “coming back to the US to visit family” is on our radar. That’s what makes this election heartbreaking. Asylum or no, moving overseas is effectively abandoning your extended/older family forever, unless you’re rich and/or a climate change denier.
sebzim4500 2y ago
Who said anything about illegal immigration? Presumably they hope to get a work visa.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  We (Americans) are so used to just picking up and moving within the country, and seeing so many people move here, that we just assume we can pick up and (legally) move anywhere in the world. Moving somewhere is very different than being a tourist, or an extended stay.
- fastball 2y ago
  The main group the Republicans were hating on this cycle is illegal immigrants, so maybe GC assumed that's what OP was.
  - fazeirony 2y ago
    in the last two months leading up to the election, the GOP spent more on anti-trans lies than on all other issues combined, including immigration. at least in so-called battleground states.
    - fastball 2y ago
      Do you have a list of the anti-trans lies they were peddling that I could peruse? Also how do you know how much they spent?
      - fazeirony 2y ago
        i'm sure you can do your own homework because i'm guessing nothing i offer will be good enough or that you are not living in a battleground state... https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans "In the past five weeks, Trump’s operation has spent more than $29 million on TV ads criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting transgender surgeries for inmates and illegal immigrants in detention, according to data from the media tracking firm AdImpact. That makes the topic, by far, the biggest focal point when it comes to Trump’s ad spending" https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-pointing-underway-following-tuesdays-historic-loss-at-the-polls/ https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-p... "There were more ads on transgender sports than inflation, gas prices and bread and butter issues that could have swayed independent voters. We did not have a turn out problem — middle of the road voters simply didn’t like what Tudor was selling." https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate-nh-student-genders/62049823 https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate... in NH, ayotte wanted forced outing of transgender individuals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 in ohio, moreno ran ads saying brown “would allow sex change surgery for young kids.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw in WI, hovde said his opponent (baldwin) supported 'castration' for minors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU and in PA, mccormick said his opponent (casey) wants to “force hospitals to perform sex change surgeries on kids.”

bbor 2y ago

Yes but many European countries process asylum applications. For software engineers, you may be able to just migrate legally using a work visa anyway — even the notoriously picky New Zealand has a special program just for us, though it’s limited to Auckland de facto. Sending love and can relate, original commenter. I wouldn’t pick anywhere in Eastern Europe, that’s for sure. Get prepared for lots of “it’s just a little fascist rhetoric, he doesn’t really mean it when he says all trans people are pedophiles and he’s gonna deport legal immigrants who seem illegal” comments

Muromec 2y ago
Don't do asylum, asylum is the worst thing ever to do in Europe now.
- bbor 2y ago
  Why…? In all of Europe?
  - Muromec 2y ago
    Being asylum seeker is not cool at all, as you don't have agency. If you are asking for worker's visa, you will get it (or very unlikely not get it) and be done with it in a few weeks. Then you just live your life normally, have access to job market, pay taxes and all that. Maybe even have a nice tax deal. If you submit for protection, then government will consider your application in maybe 2 years, but no promise (subtext: we don't want you here anyways, you are not a priority). While it's not approved, your access to labor market is limited (because they take your jobs!). If you are a tech worker with a visa, you may learn the language or not, do it fast, slow and decide yourself. If you are a status holder, you have an obligation and a case worker. Generally speaking you have a case worker and government wants to know you are still in the country and how you are doing. Now since you can't have a job, you will also have a problem finding a normal free market rent in a place that suits your vibes, so you will be at the mercy of the government as well. Happening be happening in places where a lot of people with no access to labor market are concentrated and conditions will be, lets just say cheap. Once you are processed you may get social housing. There isn't a whole lot of it sitting free in the center of the capital 5 mins aways from the you dream tech job. Now as to all of Europe? Probably not all of it, but affluent tech worker probably wants to go to a nice part of it, where everyone also wants to be, including all the actual refugees from the previous three wars and people who joined them on the way and put the foot into the door and don't want to be kicked out. System can handle it in case of emergency, but then the flow has to subside and thing have to be back to normal. Well having constant inflow is a new normal, so what does political body do with it? Downscale and slow down to throttle it. On the off chance of picking the place that isn't nice for everybody's liking, the burueacracy may be specifically optimized to reject everyone and not speak languages. Bureacracy is also very local and doesn't always match political speeches of the supreme leader whenever you agree with them or not. Do the normal tech visa, it's fine.
- alibarber 2y ago
  Reading a lot of these comments it does feel like the Michael Scott "declaring bancruptcy" approach but with asylum. For starters, you'd be quite limited in your personal freedoms until the application is processed [years], unlikely to have the right to work, or the right to leave the country you just landed in without the application being automatically cancelled. If, and really I can't see this happening, as a US citizen, you were to be granted asylum; then you ever travelling back to the US for any reason would make it likely that you would immediately lose the status (hence right to work, etc), likely with a future entry ban thrown in on top. Work visas in the European countries I know of are not at all like the US H1B/Green Card style system. There are plenty of Americans here who just did it the 'normal way' and got a job offer and filed the paperwork for that [weeks]
  - bbor 2y ago
    Yeah, asylum isn’t great. But Fascism is serious stuff. I recommend reading the stories of the great scientists who left the third reich as it was ramping up—who faced discrimination, loneliness, poverty, and severe career setbacks-and comparing them to stories of the scientists who stayed… I know which side I’d rather be on. Regardless, I don’t think “coming back to the US to visit family” is on our radar. That’s what makes this election heartbreaking. Asylum or no, moving overseas is effectively abandoning your extended/older family forever, unless you’re rich and/or a climate change denier.

sebzim4500 2y ago

Who said anything about illegal immigration? Presumably they hope to get a work visa.

gwbas1c 2y ago
We (Americans) are so used to just picking up and moving within the country, and seeing so many people move here, that we just assume we can pick up and (legally) move anywhere in the world. Moving somewhere is very different than being a tourist, or an extended stay.
fastball 2y ago
The main group the Republicans were hating on this cycle is illegal immigrants, so maybe GC assumed that's what OP was.
- fazeirony 2y ago
  in the last two months leading up to the election, the GOP spent more on anti-trans lies than on all other issues combined, including immigration. at least in so-called battleground states.
  - fastball 2y ago
    Do you have a list of the anti-trans lies they were peddling that I could peruse? Also how do you know how much they spent?
    - fazeirony 2y ago
      i'm sure you can do your own homework because i'm guessing nothing i offer will be good enough or that you are not living in a battleground state... https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans "In the past five weeks, Trump’s operation has spent more than $29 million on TV ads criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting transgender surgeries for inmates and illegal immigrants in detention, according to data from the media tracking firm AdImpact. That makes the topic, by far, the biggest focal point when it comes to Trump’s ad spending" https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-pointing-underway-following-tuesdays-historic-loss-at-the-polls/ https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-p... "There were more ads on transgender sports than inflation, gas prices and bread and butter issues that could have swayed independent voters. We did not have a turn out problem — middle of the road voters simply didn’t like what Tudor was selling." https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate-nh-student-genders/62049823 https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate... in NH, ayotte wanted forced outing of transgender individuals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 in ohio, moreno ran ads saying brown “would allow sex change surgery for young kids.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw in WI, hovde said his opponent (baldwin) supported 'castration' for minors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU and in PA, mccormick said his opponent (casey) wants to “force hospitals to perform sex change surgeries on kids.”