10 ms·

What's the best way for someone from one of the groups that Republicans hate to move to a Western European or Nordic nation where they are less likely to be mar

What's the best way for someone from one of the groups that Republicans hate to move to a Western European or Nordic nation where they are less likely to be marginalized or threatened? I'm sure there will be plenty of time to analyze exactly what happened, but right now my only concern is getting out.

olalonde 2y ago
The USA is probably one of the countries that is most tolerant of illegal immigration. I doubt there is a good alternative in Europe.
- bbor 2y ago
  Yes but many European countries process asylum applications. For software engineers, you may be able to just migrate legally using a work visa anyway — even the notoriously picky New Zealand has a special program just for us, though it’s limited to Auckland de facto. Sending love and can relate, original commenter. I wouldn’t pick anywhere in Eastern Europe, that’s for sure. Get prepared for lots of “it’s just a little fascist rhetoric, he doesn’t really mean it when he says all trans people are pedophiles and he’s gonna deport legal immigrants who seem illegal” comments
  - Muromec 2y ago
    Don't do asylum, asylum is the worst thing ever to do in Europe now.
    - bbor 2y ago
      Why…? In all of Europe?
      - Muromec 2y ago
        Being asylum seeker is not cool at all, as you don't have agency. If you are asking for worker's visa, you will get it (or very unlikely not get it) and be done with it in a few weeks. Then you just live your life normally, have access to job market, pay taxes and all that. Maybe even have a nice tax deal. If you submit for protection, then government will consider your application in maybe 2 years, but no promise (subtext: we don't want you here anyways, you are not a priority). While it's not approved, your access to labor market is limited (because they take your jobs!). If you are a tech worker with a visa, you may learn the language or not, do it fast, slow and decide yourself. If you are a status holder, you have an obligation and a case worker. Generally speaking you have a case worker and government wants to know you are still in the country and how you are doing. Now since you can't have a job, you will also have a problem finding a normal free market rent in a place that suits your vibes, so you will be at the mercy of the government as well. Happening be happening in places where a lot of people with no access to labor market are concentrated and conditions will be, lets just say cheap. Once you are processed you may get social housing. There isn't a whole lot of it sitting free in the center of the capital 5 mins aways from the you dream tech job. Now as to all of Europe? Probably not all of it, but affluent tech worker probably wants to go to a nice part of it, where everyone also wants to be, including all the actual refugees from the previous three wars and people who joined them on the way and put the foot into the door and don't want to be kicked out. System can handle it in case of emergency, but then the flow has to subside and thing have to be back to normal. Well having constant inflow is a new normal, so what does political body do with it? Downscale and slow down to throttle it. On the off chance of picking the place that isn't nice for everybody's liking, the burueacracy may be specifically optimized to reject everyone and not speak languages. Bureacracy is also very local and doesn't always match political speeches of the supreme leader whenever you agree with them or not. Do the normal tech visa, it's fine.
    - alibarber 2y ago
      Reading a lot of these comments it does feel like the Michael Scott "declaring bancruptcy" approach but with asylum. For starters, you'd be quite limited in your personal freedoms until the application is processed [years], unlikely to have the right to work, or the right to leave the country you just landed in without the application being automatically cancelled. If, and really I can't see this happening, as a US citizen, you were to be granted asylum; then you ever travelling back to the US for any reason would make it likely that you would immediately lose the status (hence right to work, etc), likely with a future entry ban thrown in on top. Work visas in the European countries I know of are not at all like the US H1B/Green Card style system. There are plenty of Americans here who just did it the 'normal way' and got a job offer and filed the paperwork for that [weeks]
      - bbor 2y ago
        Yeah, asylum isn’t great. But Fascism is serious stuff. I recommend reading the stories of the great scientists who left the third reich as it was ramping up—who faced discrimination, loneliness, poverty, and severe career setbacks-and comparing them to stories of the scientists who stayed… I know which side I’d rather be on. Regardless, I don’t think “coming back to the US to visit family” is on our radar. That’s what makes this election heartbreaking. Asylum or no, moving overseas is effectively abandoning your extended/older family forever, unless you’re rich and/or a climate change denier.
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  Who said anything about illegal immigration? Presumably they hope to get a work visa.
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    We (Americans) are so used to just picking up and moving within the country, and seeing so many people move here, that we just assume we can pick up and (legally) move anywhere in the world. Moving somewhere is very different than being a tourist, or an extended stay.
  - fastball 2y ago
    The main group the Republicans were hating on this cycle is illegal immigrants, so maybe GC assumed that's what OP was.
    - fazeirony 2y ago
      in the last two months leading up to the election, the GOP spent more on anti-trans lies than on all other issues combined, including immigration. at least in so-called battleground states.
      - fastball 2y ago
        Do you have a list of the anti-trans lies they were peddling that I could peruse? Also how do you know how much they spent?
        fazeirony 2y ago
        i'm sure you can do your own homework because i'm guessing nothing i offer will be good enough or that you are not living in a battleground state... https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans "In the past five weeks, Trump’s operation has spent more than $29 million on TV ads criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting transgender surgeries for inmates and illegal immigrants in detention, according to data from the media tracking firm AdImpact. That makes the topic, by far, the biggest focal point when it comes to Trump’s ad spending" https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-pointing-underway-following-tuesdays-historic-loss-at-the-polls/ https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-p... "There were more ads on transgender sports than inflation, gas prices and bread and butter issues that could have swayed independent voters. We did not have a turn out problem — middle of the road voters simply didn’t like what Tudor was selling." https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate-nh-student-genders/62049823 https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate... in NH, ayotte wanted forced outing of transgender individuals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 in ohio, moreno ran ads saying brown “would allow sex change surgery for young kids.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw in WI, hovde said his opponent (baldwin) supported 'castration' for minors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU and in PA, mccormick said his opponent (casey) wants to “force hospitals to perform sex change surgeries on kids.”
bojan 2y ago
If you are serious about it, which I must at this point assume you are not, you need to at least tell us what is your education level and what are you good at. You might also want to take a look at the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.
- harimau777 2y ago
  I have a masters in CS and ten years of work experience in software engineering.
  - bojan 2y ago
    Awesome! This is the list of companies that are registered by the government to employ highly educated migrants: https://ind.nl/en/public-register-recognised-sponsors/public-register-regular-labour-and-highly-skilled-migrants https://ind.nl/en/public-register-recognised-sponsors/public... A lot of them are looking for software engineers. Just go through the list one by one and keep applying. However - the salaries in Europe are significantly lower than in the US. Be prepared for that.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    Netherlands is very friendly for tech worker immigration. I've known a person who did it, and heard quite a bit about it. Or you could come here to Canada. The problem is you're going to find the same attitudes outside of the US, just a few years behind.
  - jahnu 2y ago
    You can probably walk into Ireland with that resume.
  - scrollaway 2y ago
    If you want to move to Belgium, send me an email (cf site on my profile) and I can help you with the decision and the integration. We need more good software engineers and especially founders here. Be ready to take a paycut. Salaries in Europe aren't what they're like in the US. But we make it up in many other ways. (Offer applies to anyone else who sees this)
wendyshu 2y ago
> one of the groups that Republicans hate Illegal aliens? Criminals in general? Trying to think what else
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cma 2y ago
  Parsing this for people that didnt get that it was a clear joke: Musk worked without a work visa and Trump is a convicted felon.
- doom2 2y ago
  Transgender people
  - fastball 2y ago
    Hate is a fairly strong word. I think a more accurate description of the Republican stance on transgenderism at the moment is "don't want to support it at all". And even then, that is almost entirely in reference to children. But it sounds like OP can perfectly well support themselves, so not sure that would be an issue as a member of that group.
    - pix128 2y ago
      This is just not accurate.
      - fastball 2y ago
        Feel free to expand on that.
        fazeirony 2y ago
        again, the GOP in the months leading up to the election spent more on anti-trans rhetoric than all other issues combined, including immigration and the economy. if you saw any of these ads and the literal hate being spewed, you maybe would understand better.
rmbyrro 2y ago
You'd be surprised how many hard-core xenophobic Europeans are there in Western Europe and Nordic nations...
- harimau777 2y ago
  I'm well aware that the world in general is taking a hard right wing turn. However, it's not like I have a lot of other options.
  - throw_m239339 2y ago
    > I'm well aware that the world in general is taking a hard right wing turn. However, it's not like I have a lot of other options. yes you have. Unless you are in US illegally, you have 50 states to chose from.
  - kzrdude 2y ago
    Canada is closer, why not there? Just curious. I'm from a Nordic nation but don't know how easy it is to immigrate.
    - junon 2y ago
      Canada is famously difficult to emigrate to.
    - intunderflow 2y ago
      It's really difficult unless you're in tech, in tech the immigration system melts away at your feet Idk which Nordic country you are in but for example in Denmark there's a scheme called fast track quick job start that can get tech workers (among others) a residence permit the same day someone applies, often within an hour of the application being filed assuming you go straight to their office to get fingerprinted. SIRI puts a lot of work into making moving here easy if you're a net tax benefit (and imo that's a good thing) Outside of skilled work and tech though I've heard getting a visa is pretty much impossible for non EU citizens
    - SadTrombone 2y ago
patatero 2y ago
go get em tiger
michelb 2y ago
I think progressive American women are generally welcome in The Netherlands?
stego-tech 2y ago
As someone who researched this, you have three options: Golden Visas (expensive and being phased out, but good if you have ~$500k sitting around in cash), Ancestry (a recent direct relative who was a citizen of that country), or asylum. For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option, but one that cannot be exercised until you have demonstrable proof you’d come to harm here in the States. That’ll be easier for folks in Red States whose policies are already openly hostile to our mere existence, but you’d likely get pushback since there are other states to move to and the Federal policies remain unchanged at this time. Right now, your best bet is to sit, analyze, and prepare. Get your passport and make copies of any identity documentation. Be ready to leave at a moment’s notice, because we don’t have the luxury of believing that man, his party, or his electors are just joking around or otherwise not serious. EDIT: one other thing you can do is get the hell out of a Red State ASAP and move into one of the “Blue Fortresses” of New England or the Pacific Coast. Equality Map has a good breakdown of states’ laws and protections broken down into LGBTQ-specific categories, and that’s going to be of critical import if Federal protections are tossed out. Those areas also have the added benefit of plentiful immediate transportation options out of the country, either by land, sea, or air if need be.
- 0x3444ac53 2y ago
  What do I do with no degree and very little money? I feel so trapped here.
  - Johanx64 2y ago
    If you have little money and no degree and are incapable of making it in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, where software engineers are better paid than anywhere else in the world... you will be trapped literally anywhere else, especially in a foreign country where they are under no obligation to speak to you in english.
    - SadTrombone 2y ago
      Not everyone on HN is a software engineer.
jacooper 2y ago
Stay in the U.S. It not much better elsewhere.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  Not so 'much better' elsewhere, rather, not as bad as there. Not being a sore second-hand loser much, may I offer my sincere congratulations to Presidents Putin, and Xi on their successful re-elections.
dmazin 2y ago
Hey, if you are a tech worker, UK has a very good tech worker visa called Tech Nation. Happy to answer questions about it, look it up online and email me!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
intunderflow 2y ago
If you're a software engineer email me for referral to Uber Denmark, email in bio TLDR of work: We write the global platform
jzackpete 2y ago
You mean a country that is more white?
futureshock 2y ago
I think people get ridiculed for thinking like this, but as a gay man married to a EU citizen, I am 100% ready to pull up stakes. We spend months at a time in the EU and have several favorite places we’ve talked about returning to. Western Europe has a progressive, pro-worker culture that the US will never have. I live in Florida and am financially independent. The moment the mood darkens, I’m off to greener pastures. I think the key here is that political stability is the icing on top of a great lifestyle we are already enjoying for part of the year.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Europe is the next target. The people who got Trump elected will be spending a lot of time and effort into reshaping European politics now. I’m European and most likely the overall effect you’d have, unless you went to a high income country where your impact is minimised, is likely to be net negative by raising housing prices in some poorer country like Portugal. Don’t be too surprised when their own Trump gets elected.
  - tmountain 2y ago
    American expat living in Portugal here. The chega party is indeed on the rise here, but politics are less about personal identity and more focused on issues. A lot of chega’s rise has been attributed to dissatisfaction with the status quo and a warning shot to the incumbent government. Time will tell which direction things go, but the affordability of housing and low wages top the list of concerns.
    - sparky_ 2y ago
      Howdy, neighbor! Am also an American expat living in Portugal. We've been living in Lisbon for about a year, and so far I really love it here. People are friendly, the vibe is relaxed, and life is peaceful with a glass of inexpensive wine never far away. Highly recommend anyone looking for an exit plan to consider sunny Portugal. So far, there are no indications of the far-right gaining any amount of power with which they could govern. In a broader sense there have been a number of rightwing victories across Europe, but thus far Portugal (and Spain next door) don't look poised to join that trend.
thenaturalist 2y ago
You are in tech? EDIT: Heck even if not, just come over. Come work in Berlin. Very LGBTQ friendly. The current gov. reduced the path to citizenship down to 5 years and allows for dual citizenships. Get a permanent residency earlier, go live and work in the EU.
015a 2y ago
The number of republicans in a fifty mile radius of you, or even across the country, did not change between yesterday and today. What happened during your local government elections yesterday? State government? There is nowhere to run to. When the Right felt like they were losing the soul of their country, they stayed and they voted. When Democrats feel the same, you want to run? I hear this everywhere and its literally the sensibility destroying America; not because the right is going to destroy America, far from it, but because any unchecked side will.
- arrosenberg 2y ago
  >When Democrats feel the same, you want to run? They want to run because the right is using violent language and saying they are going on a revenge tour. Why is that weird to you?
  - atonse 2y ago
    Do you have examples? I'm genuinely asking. Just started reading online after going to bed last night.
    - TheSisb2 2y ago
      Not sure why this is being downvoted, also curious
    - harimau777 2y ago
      At CPAC, Michael Knowles said: “for the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely” Trump banned trans people from serving in the military. More broadly, trans people routinely lose their jobs. Trump has repeatedly called for socialists to be destroyed. For example: "We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, that lie and steal and cheat on elections...” Trump has called for socialists to be deported: “Today I’m announcing a new plan to protect the integrity of our immigration system. Federal law prohibits the entry of communists and totalitarians into the United States. But my question is, what are we going to do with the ones that are already here, that grew up here? I think we have to pass a new law for them.”
IAmGraydon 2y ago
If you wanted to move, that information is freely available with a simple Google search. What you are doing here is feigning disgust, but you won't move or you just would. No one is out to get you. You are a victim of propaganda.
- pix128 2y ago
  It's smart to explore your options.
Muromec 2y ago
It's trivially easy to get a knowledge migrant visa to the Netherlands. Just find a tech job. There is also Dutch-US friendship treaty, so you can found a company, employ yourself and do the contract type of thing too. You will not get your SV salary ofc and maybe even less than 100k, but hej, you flee the opressive regime, right? Now if things are bad and you are targeted personally and have a paper trail, there is also asylum thing. You don't want to do that thing, it sucks. Just get a job in whatever country you fancy and they will move you.

olalonde 2y ago

The USA is probably one of the countries that is most tolerant of illegal immigration. I doubt there is a good alternative in Europe.

bbor 2y ago
Yes but many European countries process asylum applications. For software engineers, you may be able to just migrate legally using a work visa anyway — even the notoriously picky New Zealand has a special program just for us, though it’s limited to Auckland de facto. Sending love and can relate, original commenter. I wouldn’t pick anywhere in Eastern Europe, that’s for sure. Get prepared for lots of “it’s just a little fascist rhetoric, he doesn’t really mean it when he says all trans people are pedophiles and he’s gonna deport legal immigrants who seem illegal” comments
- Muromec 2y ago
  Don't do asylum, asylum is the worst thing ever to do in Europe now.
  - bbor 2y ago
    Why…? In all of Europe?
    - Muromec 2y ago
      Being asylum seeker is not cool at all, as you don't have agency. If you are asking for worker's visa, you will get it (or very unlikely not get it) and be done with it in a few weeks. Then you just live your life normally, have access to job market, pay taxes and all that. Maybe even have a nice tax deal. If you submit for protection, then government will consider your application in maybe 2 years, but no promise (subtext: we don't want you here anyways, you are not a priority). While it's not approved, your access to labor market is limited (because they take your jobs!). If you are a tech worker with a visa, you may learn the language or not, do it fast, slow and decide yourself. If you are a status holder, you have an obligation and a case worker. Generally speaking you have a case worker and government wants to know you are still in the country and how you are doing. Now since you can't have a job, you will also have a problem finding a normal free market rent in a place that suits your vibes, so you will be at the mercy of the government as well. Happening be happening in places where a lot of people with no access to labor market are concentrated and conditions will be, lets just say cheap. Once you are processed you may get social housing. There isn't a whole lot of it sitting free in the center of the capital 5 mins aways from the you dream tech job. Now as to all of Europe? Probably not all of it, but affluent tech worker probably wants to go to a nice part of it, where everyone also wants to be, including all the actual refugees from the previous three wars and people who joined them on the way and put the foot into the door and don't want to be kicked out. System can handle it in case of emergency, but then the flow has to subside and thing have to be back to normal. Well having constant inflow is a new normal, so what does political body do with it? Downscale and slow down to throttle it. On the off chance of picking the place that isn't nice for everybody's liking, the burueacracy may be specifically optimized to reject everyone and not speak languages. Bureacracy is also very local and doesn't always match political speeches of the supreme leader whenever you agree with them or not. Do the normal tech visa, it's fine.
  - alibarber 2y ago
    Reading a lot of these comments it does feel like the Michael Scott "declaring bancruptcy" approach but with asylum. For starters, you'd be quite limited in your personal freedoms until the application is processed [years], unlikely to have the right to work, or the right to leave the country you just landed in without the application being automatically cancelled. If, and really I can't see this happening, as a US citizen, you were to be granted asylum; then you ever travelling back to the US for any reason would make it likely that you would immediately lose the status (hence right to work, etc), likely with a future entry ban thrown in on top. Work visas in the European countries I know of are not at all like the US H1B/Green Card style system. There are plenty of Americans here who just did it the 'normal way' and got a job offer and filed the paperwork for that [weeks]
    - bbor 2y ago
      Yeah, asylum isn’t great. But Fascism is serious stuff. I recommend reading the stories of the great scientists who left the third reich as it was ramping up—who faced discrimination, loneliness, poverty, and severe career setbacks-and comparing them to stories of the scientists who stayed… I know which side I’d rather be on. Regardless, I don’t think “coming back to the US to visit family” is on our radar. That’s what makes this election heartbreaking. Asylum or no, moving overseas is effectively abandoning your extended/older family forever, unless you’re rich and/or a climate change denier.
sebzim4500 2y ago
Who said anything about illegal immigration? Presumably they hope to get a work visa.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  We (Americans) are so used to just picking up and moving within the country, and seeing so many people move here, that we just assume we can pick up and (legally) move anywhere in the world. Moving somewhere is very different than being a tourist, or an extended stay.
- fastball 2y ago
  The main group the Republicans were hating on this cycle is illegal immigrants, so maybe GC assumed that's what OP was.
  - fazeirony 2y ago
    in the last two months leading up to the election, the GOP spent more on anti-trans lies than on all other issues combined, including immigration. at least in so-called battleground states.
    - fastball 2y ago
      Do you have a list of the anti-trans lies they were peddling that I could peruse? Also how do you know how much they spent?
      - fazeirony 2y ago
        i'm sure you can do your own homework because i'm guessing nothing i offer will be good enough or that you are not living in a battleground state... https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-goes-all-in-on-anti-trans "In the past five weeks, Trump’s operation has spent more than $29 million on TV ads criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris for supporting transgender surgeries for inmates and illegal immigrants in detention, according to data from the media tracking firm AdImpact. That makes the topic, by far, the biggest focal point when it comes to Trump’s ad spending" https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-pointing-underway-following-tuesdays-historic-loss-at-the-polls/ https://michiganadvance.com/2022/11/11/michigan-gop-finger-p... "There were more ads on transgender sports than inflation, gas prices and bread and butter issues that could have swayed independent voters. We did not have a turn out problem — middle of the road voters simply didn’t like what Tudor was selling." https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate-nh-student-genders/62049823 https://www.wmur.com/article/chuck-morse-kelly-ayotte-debate... in NH, ayotte wanted forced outing of transgender individuals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSoTOuo9L0 in ohio, moreno ran ads saying brown “would allow sex change surgery for young kids.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73kKnbpAVw in WI, hovde said his opponent (baldwin) supported 'castration' for minors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1Y2dTzvAU and in PA, mccormick said his opponent (casey) wants to “force hospitals to perform sex change surgeries on kids.”

bojan 2y ago

If you are serious about it, which I must at this point assume you are not, you need to at least tell us what is your education level and what are you good at. You might also want to take a look at the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.

harimau777 2y ago
I have a masters in CS and ten years of work experience in software engineering.
- bojan 2y ago
  Awesome! This is the list of companies that are registered by the government to employ highly educated migrants: https://ind.nl/en/public-register-recognised-sponsors/public-register-regular-labour-and-highly-skilled-migrants https://ind.nl/en/public-register-recognised-sponsors/public... A lot of them are looking for software engineers. Just go through the list one by one and keep applying. However - the salaries in Europe are significantly lower than in the US. Be prepared for that.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Netherlands is very friendly for tech worker immigration. I've known a person who did it, and heard quite a bit about it. Or you could come here to Canada. The problem is you're going to find the same attitudes outside of the US, just a few years behind.
- jahnu 2y ago
  You can probably walk into Ireland with that resume.
- scrollaway 2y ago
  If you want to move to Belgium, send me an email (cf site on my profile) and I can help you with the decision and the integration. We need more good software engineers and especially founders here. Be ready to take a paycut. Salaries in Europe aren't what they're like in the US. But we make it up in many other ways. (Offer applies to anyone else who sees this)

wendyshu 2y ago

> one of the groups that Republicans hate Illegal aliens? Criminals in general? Trying to think what else

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cma 2y ago
Parsing this for people that didnt get that it was a clear joke: Musk worked without a work visa and Trump is a convicted felon.
doom2 2y ago
Transgender people
- fastball 2y ago
  Hate is a fairly strong word. I think a more accurate description of the Republican stance on transgenderism at the moment is "don't want to support it at all". And even then, that is almost entirely in reference to children. But it sounds like OP can perfectly well support themselves, so not sure that would be an issue as a member of that group.
  - pix128 2y ago
    This is just not accurate.
    - fastball 2y ago
      Feel free to expand on that.
      - fazeirony 2y ago
        again, the GOP in the months leading up to the election spent more on anti-trans rhetoric than all other issues combined, including immigration and the economy. if you saw any of these ads and the literal hate being spewed, you maybe would understand better.

rmbyrro 2y ago

You'd be surprised how many hard-core xenophobic Europeans are there in Western Europe and Nordic nations...

harimau777 2y ago
I'm well aware that the world in general is taking a hard right wing turn. However, it's not like I have a lot of other options.
- throw_m239339 2y ago
  > I'm well aware that the world in general is taking a hard right wing turn. However, it's not like I have a lot of other options. yes you have. Unless you are in US illegally, you have 50 states to chose from.
- kzrdude 2y ago
  Canada is closer, why not there? Just curious. I'm from a Nordic nation but don't know how easy it is to immigrate.
  - junon 2y ago
    Canada is famously difficult to emigrate to.
  - intunderflow 2y ago
    It's really difficult unless you're in tech, in tech the immigration system melts away at your feet Idk which Nordic country you are in but for example in Denmark there's a scheme called fast track quick job start that can get tech workers (among others) a residence permit the same day someone applies, often within an hour of the application being filed assuming you go straight to their office to get fingerprinted. SIRI puts a lot of work into making moving here easy if you're a net tax benefit (and imo that's a good thing) Outside of skilled work and tech though I've heard getting a visa is pretty much impossible for non EU citizens
  - SadTrombone 2y ago

patatero 2y ago

go get em tiger

michelb 2y ago

I think progressive American women are generally welcome in The Netherlands?

stego-tech 2y ago

As someone who researched this, you have three options: Golden Visas (expensive and being phased out, but good if you have ~$500k sitting around in cash), Ancestry (a recent direct relative who was a citizen of that country), or asylum. For LGBTQ+, asylum is the likely option, but one that cannot be exercised until you have demonstrable proof you’d come to harm here in the States. That’ll be easier for folks in Red States whose policies are already openly hostile to our mere existence, but you’d likely get pushback since there are other states to move to and the Federal policies remain unchanged at this time. Right now, your best bet is to sit, analyze, and prepare. Get your passport and make copies of any identity documentation. Be ready to leave at a moment’s notice, because we don’t have the luxury of believing that man, his party, or his electors are just joking around or otherwise not serious. EDIT: one other thing you can do is get the hell out of a Red State ASAP and move into one of the “Blue Fortresses” of New England or the Pacific Coast. Equality Map has a good breakdown of states’ laws and protections broken down into LGBTQ-specific categories, and that’s going to be of critical import if Federal protections are tossed out. Those areas also have the added benefit of plentiful immediate transportation options out of the country, either by land, sea, or air if need be.

0x3444ac53 2y ago
What do I do with no degree and very little money? I feel so trapped here.
- Johanx64 2y ago
  If you have little money and no degree and are incapable of making it in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, where software engineers are better paid than anywhere else in the world... you will be trapped literally anywhere else, especially in a foreign country where they are under no obligation to speak to you in english.
  - SadTrombone 2y ago
    Not everyone on HN is a software engineer.

jacooper 2y ago

Stay in the U.S. It not much better elsewhere.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
Not so 'much better' elsewhere, rather, not as bad as there. Not being a sore second-hand loser much, may I offer my sincere congratulations to Presidents Putin, and Xi on their successful re-elections.

dmazin 2y ago

Hey, if you are a tech worker, UK has a very good tech worker visa called Tech Nation. Happy to answer questions about it, look it up online and email me!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

intunderflow 2y ago

If you're a software engineer email me for referral to Uber Denmark, email in bio TLDR of work: We write the global platform

jzackpete 2y ago

You mean a country that is more white?

futureshock 2y ago

I think people get ridiculed for thinking like this, but as a gay man married to a EU citizen, I am 100% ready to pull up stakes. We spend months at a time in the EU and have several favorite places we’ve talked about returning to. Western Europe has a progressive, pro-worker culture that the US will never have. I live in Florida and am financially independent. The moment the mood darkens, I’m off to greener pastures. I think the key here is that political stability is the icing on top of a great lifestyle we are already enjoying for part of the year.

kranke155 2y ago
Europe is the next target. The people who got Trump elected will be spending a lot of time and effort into reshaping European politics now. I’m European and most likely the overall effect you’d have, unless you went to a high income country where your impact is minimised, is likely to be net negative by raising housing prices in some poorer country like Portugal. Don’t be too surprised when their own Trump gets elected.
- tmountain 2y ago
  American expat living in Portugal here. The chega party is indeed on the rise here, but politics are less about personal identity and more focused on issues. A lot of chega’s rise has been attributed to dissatisfaction with the status quo and a warning shot to the incumbent government. Time will tell which direction things go, but the affordability of housing and low wages top the list of concerns.
  - sparky_ 2y ago
    Howdy, neighbor! Am also an American expat living in Portugal. We've been living in Lisbon for about a year, and so far I really love it here. People are friendly, the vibe is relaxed, and life is peaceful with a glass of inexpensive wine never far away. Highly recommend anyone looking for an exit plan to consider sunny Portugal. So far, there are no indications of the far-right gaining any amount of power with which they could govern. In a broader sense there have been a number of rightwing victories across Europe, but thus far Portugal (and Spain next door) don't look poised to join that trend.

thenaturalist 2y ago

You are in tech? EDIT: Heck even if not, just come over. Come work in Berlin. Very LGBTQ friendly. The current gov. reduced the path to citizenship down to 5 years and allows for dual citizenships. Get a permanent residency earlier, go live and work in the EU.

015a 2y ago

The number of republicans in a fifty mile radius of you, or even across the country, did not change between yesterday and today. What happened during your local government elections yesterday? State government? There is nowhere to run to. When the Right felt like they were losing the soul of their country, they stayed and they voted. When Democrats feel the same, you want to run? I hear this everywhere and its literally the sensibility destroying America; not because the right is going to destroy America, far from it, but because any unchecked side will.

arrosenberg 2y ago
>When Democrats feel the same, you want to run? They want to run because the right is using violent language and saying they are going on a revenge tour. Why is that weird to you?
- atonse 2y ago
  Do you have examples? I'm genuinely asking. Just started reading online after going to bed last night.
  - TheSisb2 2y ago
    Not sure why this is being downvoted, also curious
  - harimau777 2y ago
    At CPAC, Michael Knowles said: “for the good of society … transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely” Trump banned trans people from serving in the military. More broadly, trans people routinely lose their jobs. Trump has repeatedly called for socialists to be destroyed. For example: "We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, that lie and steal and cheat on elections...” Trump has called for socialists to be deported: “Today I’m announcing a new plan to protect the integrity of our immigration system. Federal law prohibits the entry of communists and totalitarians into the United States. But my question is, what are we going to do with the ones that are already here, that grew up here? I think we have to pass a new law for them.”

IAmGraydon 2y ago

If you wanted to move, that information is freely available with a simple Google search. What you are doing here is feigning disgust, but you won't move or you just would. No one is out to get you. You are a victim of propaganda.

pix128 2y ago
It's smart to explore your options.

Muromec 2y ago

It's trivially easy to get a knowledge migrant visa to the Netherlands. Just find a tech job. There is also Dutch-US friendship treaty, so you can found a company, employ yourself and do the contract type of thing too. You will not get your SV salary ofc and maybe even less than 100k, but hej, you flee the opressive regime, right? Now if things are bad and you are targeted personally and have a paper trail, there is also asylum thing. You don't want to do that thing, it sucks. Just get a job in whatever country you fancy and they will move you.