7 ms·

How are the repubs not pro-war? They are pro-Israel and anti-Palestine. They are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.

by dtquad 2y ago

_heimdall 2y ago
The republicans I know have pretty varying opinions on those two wars. One pretty common thread is that they don't want us involved though, regardless of which side of the wars they align with.
- philistine 2y ago
  Ultimately those opinions will not matter. The president has full control of the State department and will align with the autocrats who stroke his ego: Putin and Netanyahu. Expect the money to stop flowing to Ukraine, and to keep going to Israel, and try to divine a logic for that.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Thankfully the state department doesn't hold the purse strings, though the democratic party did so poorly that Congress may still be willing to approve whatever spending the Trump wants.
- TOMDM 2y ago
  Then call them what they are, isolationists not anti war then. Carrying water for Russia's invasion of Ukraine; opposing aid for Ukraine is incompatible.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Sure, you could call them isolation if you prefer. Many of the republicans I know sit in a gray area in between, they definitely don't want us involved but they also don't have a strong opinion on the wars either way and see them as someone else's fight. That definitely isn't the main narrative I see in the media, but I personally know very few republicans who care strongly about one side of either war. That view is a bit like a libertarian anti-war view in my opinion. Its antiwar without attempting to get involved in anyone else's business.
    - navigate8310 2y ago
      Basically questioning tax-money spendings
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  Trump is going to send more money and armaments to Israel and not one of them will object because he will abandon Ukraine and they’ll all hold that up as an amazing thing.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Maybe, at which point I expect their being pretty hypocritical. I wouldn't begin to say one side of either war is in the absolute right or wrong though. War is messy, terrible, and bloody. It'd never as simply as right vs wrong or good vs evil.
    - Forgeties79 2y ago
      When has hypocrisy ever caused self reflection when people are playing the team sport that is politics? It’s always “your hypocrisy is worse than my hypocrisy” because even if they admit the hypocrisy exists (not a given) they just chalk it up to “both sides.“ We’ve seen this song and dance for a decade straight.
- cglace 2y ago
  All of the Trump voters I know think we should obliterate Iran.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    Here's 1 that doesn't think that. Maybe you just don't know enough Trump voters?
    - cglace 2y ago
      I live in Georgia; my family is from South Carolina, North Carolina, and Florida. Try again.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Well that's interesting. I live in a very red area and have never heard this. At best I could hear it said as a joke, I don't know anyone that would actually think we should do that.
cynicalpeace 2y ago
They are certainly more anti-war than the Dems right now
siffin 2y ago
They have managed to have themselves perceived as anti-war, which is an obvious untruth.
arandomusername 2y ago
True they are pro-israel, but so is most of the dems. It's the one topic that actually gets bipartisan support. repubs aren't pro russia. they are just anti-getting-involved in there.
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  >repubs aren’t pro russia They sure are for the right price.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    > repubs aren’t pro russia This only matter if we think that the Republican party still exists, and was not silently replaced by other party carrying its blood stained skin. Is GOP still alive? Is a serious question. I have a lot of doubts about the real independence of republicans in this situation. The man at charge is obviously pro Russia and the republicans can't do a s*t about this. They will be replaced one by one. Anything that would try will be pushed out of the road.
    - Forgeties79 2y ago
      GQP/MAGA is the party now. Old GOP was definitely swiftly executed. I heard Mitch McConnell called a RINO a few weeks ago. That says it all.
      - pvaldes 2y ago
        Is an interesting case in fact. In my opinion USA democracy is clearly into a transitional phase to became a monarchy. I would not bet money against Donald I becaming the first King of America. All ingredients are yet over the table. 1) Cult to the leader, Image printed on coins, posters, everywhere on TV and media. Fanatism 2) Religion serves the King. Divine intervention to justify power take. "God choose me in a divine mission to fix this mess" is a central part of the speech in every new monarch crowning. Trump is yet talking about that. 3) Exceptionalism and isolationalism, we are the best country and is cold and rainy out of my frontiers. Frontiers are very important for Kings as symbolic element of protection. 4) Extravagant behavior. Trump did all sort of outrageous things that would put anybody else in the jail, but got unscathed all the time. All kings do this. This is made to reinforce the idea of a special "superhuman" status. 4) Laws. This special status imply also that the law does not apply to the King and people will be carefully taught about that. 5) Killing competitors to the crown ("Hang Mike Pence" was metaphorical, but also works in a symbolic plane). 6) Wicht hunt behavior. As the King can't do wrong, scapegoats are required, normally on minorities. 7) Useful idiots. Extensive use of expendable pawns that are promised to enter the court, became famous, gain influence etc if they do a favor for the King. Those promises will never deliver. 8) Sucession. I would bet that the next elections will not have Trump as a frontman but a son of Trump will be the sure and only candidate. Every step will be taken to assure that not other has an opportunity inside the party. There will be a strong temptation and a lot of space to cheat in elections also. 9) And a component that is not still here, but I expect to see in the future is to disarm people that could pose a treat, weapon control but only for a part of the population. All Kings do this.
tekknik 2y ago
Boy what an over generalization. Most are anti palestine because Hamas is a terrorist. Sorry I won’t support terrorism and support what Israel is doing. I support Ukraine because I know what Russia needs Ukraine for. Do I want to see people shooting? No because I’ve been to war and seen how ugly it is. Sometimes you have to defend yourself though. I still voted for Trump.
- CapricornNoble 2y ago
  > Sorry I won’t support terrorism and support what Israel is doing. This just means you support State Terrorism instead of non-state terrorism. > Sometimes you have to defend yourself though. Unless you're Palestinian. In which case defending yourself isn't authorized. Just ask the West Bank residents being regularly killed by armed illegal settlers pre-October 7th how laying down their arms has worked out for them.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    I'm trying to follow your logic, seriously please help me. You are suggesting that murdering people at a music festival and kidnapping children and kidnapping elderly and beheading civilians is a form of defense against other people hurting other people in a different geographic region? Please, tell me I'm wrong and do tell me how you see things.
    - CapricornNoble 2y ago
      > You are suggesting that murdering people at a music festival and kidnapping children and kidnapping elderly and beheading civilians is a form of defense against other people hurting other people in a different geographic region? I'm suggesting murdering people at a music festival occupies the same space, morally, as bombing entire families with aviation ordnance. One of them is painted as wrong, and the other isn't, because state terrorism is tacitly approved in the Western mainstream information space....depending on the perpetrators. When Hamas (or Russia) does it, it's "kidnapping", when Israel does it, they are "detaining suspects". From August 2023 (before the Hamas attack) AP News was reporting Israel had 1,200 detainees without charges. Why aren't they called hostages? ( https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435 https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinia... ) The two regions are both enclaves of Palestine, engaged in a joint struggle for emancipation. There were 100+ Palestinians killed in the West Bank in 2022: ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63073541 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63073541 ) and 200+ killed in 2023 before the October 7th attack ( https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1139922 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1139922 ). Clearly disarmament and NOT being ruled by Hamas is not working for the West Bank Palestinians. I'm sure if you asked any of the various Palestinian militant groups, yes they are engaged in a joint defense of their people. After all, the primary purpose of the Al-Aqsa Flood Operation was to try to capture enough Israelis to force a prisoner exchange and get their own people back (similar to snatching Gilad Shalit and trading just him for 1,000 Palestinians). They suffered from "catastrophic success" mixed with undisciplined follow-on echelons (Palestinian Islamic Jihad as well as others) who inflicted far more civilian damage than just a cross-border snatch & grab....and they are definitely paying for it in blood now.
beeboobaa6 2y ago
[flagged]
rcstank 2y ago
Anecdotally, I’ve seen many republicans be anti-Israel and anti-Palestine, anti-Ukraine and anti-Russia. Their stance is pro-America.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  Yup, me too.
dotancohen 2y ago
Arguably being pro-Israel is anti-war. Israel's current conflict is the direct result of several entities starting a war with her last October. Suggesting that Israel should not fight back is promoting the idea of war as a means of getting what one wants.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Nah, Americans aren't that dumb. We send billions and billions to Israel every year, for what? Most Americans want to stop being a blank check for them to bomb whoever and then get mad, deplete their resources, and ask for more when they get attacked back
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    I'm glad that you feel that way. You'll be relieved that those pushing the "Israel bombs whoever and then get mad" agenda was lying to you. We've been (we as in my family) absorbing rocket fire for literately years - hardly been bombing every time we get mad. It took something egregious - literally beheadings and burning of babies (I personally know at least two families whose babies were burned to death) - to ignite this war. My daughter's classmate was murdered in his home along with both his sisters and both their parents. My son's summer camp counselor was kidnapped, his body was later retrieved. Shall I go on? What would you have your country do under these circumstances? Your heart is in the right place. But you've been manipulated.
    - marxisttemp 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      > You'll be relieved that those pushing the "Israel bombs whoever and then get mad" agenda was lying to you. No they weren't. Absorbing bombs when you have a missile defense system that ensures zero to tens of casualties, then responding with the same bombs when you know they will cause hundreds to thousands of casualties is doing exactly what I said. No one lied to me. I saw the facts and saw my money being sent to people who think this is okay, and like every other sane American, I said it should stop, and soon it will. All of this was a decade ago, back when Israelis used to set up lawn chairs on hills overlooking Gaza and cheer as bombs dropped. Tell me how this was a lie too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer... Look, all this aside, you're probably a nice guy. You're probably worried for your family.i get that. I've been there. But 20 years and trillions of dollars spent on wars that did nothing to secure us, nothing to change the region, taught me that fighting back isn't always the path to success. You have to fight right, and you have to fight smart too. The US had a ton of goodwill from the world after 9/11 and squandered it so bad that Trump, who has now been elected resoundingly twice as a Republican, said on stage, in front of tons of Republicans that Republican President Bush was one of the worst presidents and his wars were disastrous mistakes and we should have never gone. Cheney, who architected those wars, and his family, are now global pariahs basically. Lashing out and wasting money and causing more problems and expecting a wallet refill? I saw that for 2 decades, and I'm done with it here, and I'm done with paying for it somewhere else too
thehappypm 2y ago
The GOP would rather the Ukraine war end (probably with Russia winning).

How are the repubs not pro-war? They are pro-Israel and anti-Palestine. They are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.

by dtquad 2y ago

How are the repubs not pro-war? They are pro-Israel and anti-Palestine. They are pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.

The republicans I know have pretty varying opinions on those two wars. One pretty common thread is that they don't want us involved though, regardless of which side of the wars they align with.

philistine 2y ago
Ultimately those opinions will not matter. The president has full control of the State department and will align with the autocrats who stroke his ego: Putin and Netanyahu. Expect the money to stop flowing to Ukraine, and to keep going to Israel, and try to divine a logic for that.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Thankfully the state department doesn't hold the purse strings, though the democratic party did so poorly that Congress may still be willing to approve whatever spending the Trump wants.
TOMDM 2y ago
Then call them what they are, isolationists not anti war then. Carrying water for Russia's invasion of Ukraine; opposing aid for Ukraine is incompatible.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Sure, you could call them isolation if you prefer. Many of the republicans I know sit in a gray area in between, they definitely don't want us involved but they also don't have a strong opinion on the wars either way and see them as someone else's fight. That definitely isn't the main narrative I see in the media, but I personally know very few republicans who care strongly about one side of either war. That view is a bit like a libertarian anti-war view in my opinion. Its antiwar without attempting to get involved in anyone else's business.
  - navigate8310 2y ago
    Basically questioning tax-money spendings
Forgeties79 2y ago
Trump is going to send more money and armaments to Israel and not one of them will object because he will abandon Ukraine and they’ll all hold that up as an amazing thing.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Maybe, at which point I expect their being pretty hypocritical. I wouldn't begin to say one side of either war is in the absolute right or wrong though. War is messy, terrible, and bloody. It'd never as simply as right vs wrong or good vs evil.
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    When has hypocrisy ever caused self reflection when people are playing the team sport that is politics? It’s always “your hypocrisy is worse than my hypocrisy” because even if they admit the hypocrisy exists (not a given) they just chalk it up to “both sides.“ We’ve seen this song and dance for a decade straight.
cglace 2y ago
All of the Trump voters I know think we should obliterate Iran.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  Here's 1 that doesn't think that. Maybe you just don't know enough Trump voters?
  - cglace 2y ago
    I live in Georgia; my family is from South Carolina, North Carolina, and Florida. Try again.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Well that's interesting. I live in a very red area and have never heard this. At best I could hear it said as a joke, I don't know anyone that would actually think we should do that.

cynicalpeace 2y ago

They are certainly more anti-war than the Dems right now

siffin 2y ago

They have managed to have themselves perceived as anti-war, which is an obvious untruth.

arandomusername 2y ago

True they are pro-israel, but so is most of the dems. It's the one topic that actually gets bipartisan support. repubs aren't pro russia. they are just anti-getting-involved in there.

Forgeties79 2y ago
>repubs aren’t pro russia They sure are for the right price.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  > repubs aren’t pro russia This only matter if we think that the Republican party still exists, and was not silently replaced by other party carrying its blood stained skin. Is GOP still alive? Is a serious question. I have a lot of doubts about the real independence of republicans in this situation. The man at charge is obviously pro Russia and the republicans can't do a s*t about this. They will be replaced one by one. Anything that would try will be pushed out of the road.
  - Forgeties79 2y ago
    GQP/MAGA is the party now. Old GOP was definitely swiftly executed. I heard Mitch McConnell called a RINO a few weeks ago. That says it all.
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      Is an interesting case in fact. In my opinion USA democracy is clearly into a transitional phase to became a monarchy. I would not bet money against Donald I becaming the first King of America. All ingredients are yet over the table. 1) Cult to the leader, Image printed on coins, posters, everywhere on TV and media. Fanatism 2) Religion serves the King. Divine intervention to justify power take. "God choose me in a divine mission to fix this mess" is a central part of the speech in every new monarch crowning. Trump is yet talking about that. 3) Exceptionalism and isolationalism, we are the best country and is cold and rainy out of my frontiers. Frontiers are very important for Kings as symbolic element of protection. 4) Extravagant behavior. Trump did all sort of outrageous things that would put anybody else in the jail, but got unscathed all the time. All kings do this. This is made to reinforce the idea of a special "superhuman" status. 4) Laws. This special status imply also that the law does not apply to the King and people will be carefully taught about that. 5) Killing competitors to the crown ("Hang Mike Pence" was metaphorical, but also works in a symbolic plane). 6) Wicht hunt behavior. As the King can't do wrong, scapegoats are required, normally on minorities. 7) Useful idiots. Extensive use of expendable pawns that are promised to enter the court, became famous, gain influence etc if they do a favor for the King. Those promises will never deliver. 8) Sucession. I would bet that the next elections will not have Trump as a frontman but a son of Trump will be the sure and only candidate. Every step will be taken to assure that not other has an opportunity inside the party. There will be a strong temptation and a lot of space to cheat in elections also. 9) And a component that is not still here, but I expect to see in the future is to disarm people that could pose a treat, weapon control but only for a part of the population. All Kings do this.

tekknik 2y ago

Boy what an over generalization. Most are anti palestine because Hamas is a terrorist. Sorry I won’t support terrorism and support what Israel is doing. I support Ukraine because I know what Russia needs Ukraine for. Do I want to see people shooting? No because I’ve been to war and seen how ugly it is. Sometimes you have to defend yourself though. I still voted for Trump.

CapricornNoble 2y ago
> Sorry I won’t support terrorism and support what Israel is doing. This just means you support State Terrorism instead of non-state terrorism. > Sometimes you have to defend yourself though. Unless you're Palestinian. In which case defending yourself isn't authorized. Just ask the West Bank residents being regularly killed by armed illegal settlers pre-October 7th how laying down their arms has worked out for them.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  I'm trying to follow your logic, seriously please help me. You are suggesting that murdering people at a music festival and kidnapping children and kidnapping elderly and beheading civilians is a form of defense against other people hurting other people in a different geographic region? Please, tell me I'm wrong and do tell me how you see things.
  - CapricornNoble 2y ago
    > You are suggesting that murdering people at a music festival and kidnapping children and kidnapping elderly and beheading civilians is a form of defense against other people hurting other people in a different geographic region? I'm suggesting murdering people at a music festival occupies the same space, morally, as bombing entire families with aviation ordnance. One of them is painted as wrong, and the other isn't, because state terrorism is tacitly approved in the Western mainstream information space....depending on the perpetrators. When Hamas (or Russia) does it, it's "kidnapping", when Israel does it, they are "detaining suspects". From August 2023 (before the Hamas attack) AP News was reporting Israel had 1,200 detainees without charges. Why aren't they called hostages? ( https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinians-west-bank-793a3b2a1ce8439d08756da8c63e5435 https://apnews.com/article/israel-detention-jails-palestinia... ) The two regions are both enclaves of Palestine, engaged in a joint struggle for emancipation. There were 100+ Palestinians killed in the West Bank in 2022: ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63073541 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63073541 ) and 200+ killed in 2023 before the October 7th attack ( https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1139922 https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/08/1139922 ). Clearly disarmament and NOT being ruled by Hamas is not working for the West Bank Palestinians. I'm sure if you asked any of the various Palestinian militant groups, yes they are engaged in a joint defense of their people. After all, the primary purpose of the Al-Aqsa Flood Operation was to try to capture enough Israelis to force a prisoner exchange and get their own people back (similar to snatching Gilad Shalit and trading just him for 1,000 Palestinians). They suffered from "catastrophic success" mixed with undisciplined follow-on echelons (Palestinian Islamic Jihad as well as others) who inflicted far more civilian damage than just a cross-border snatch & grab....and they are definitely paying for it in blood now.

beeboobaa6 2y ago

[flagged]

rcstank 2y ago

Anecdotally, I’ve seen many republicans be anti-Israel and anti-Palestine, anti-Ukraine and anti-Russia. Their stance is pro-America.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
Yup, me too.

dotancohen 2y ago

Arguably being pro-Israel is anti-war. Israel's current conflict is the direct result of several entities starting a war with her last October. Suggesting that Israel should not fight back is promoting the idea of war as a means of getting what one wants.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
Nah, Americans aren't that dumb. We send billions and billions to Israel every year, for what? Most Americans want to stop being a blank check for them to bomb whoever and then get mad, deplete their resources, and ask for more when they get attacked back
- dotancohen 2y ago
  I'm glad that you feel that way. You'll be relieved that those pushing the "Israel bombs whoever and then get mad" agenda was lying to you. We've been (we as in my family) absorbing rocket fire for literately years - hardly been bombing every time we get mad. It took something egregious - literally beheadings and burning of babies (I personally know at least two families whose babies were burned to death) - to ignite this war. My daughter's classmate was murdered in his home along with both his sisters and both their parents. My son's summer camp counselor was kidnapped, his body was later retrieved. Shall I go on? What would you have your country do under these circumstances? Your heart is in the right place. But you've been manipulated.
  - marxisttemp 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    > You'll be relieved that those pushing the "Israel bombs whoever and then get mad" agenda was lying to you. No they weren't. Absorbing bombs when you have a missile defense system that ensures zero to tens of casualties, then responding with the same bombs when you know they will cause hundreds to thousands of casualties is doing exactly what I said. No one lied to me. I saw the facts and saw my money being sent to people who think this is okay, and like every other sane American, I said it should stop, and soon it will. All of this was a decade ago, back when Israelis used to set up lawn chairs on hills overlooking Gaza and cheer as bombs dropped. Tell me how this was a lie too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer... Look, all this aside, you're probably a nice guy. You're probably worried for your family.i get that. I've been there. But 20 years and trillions of dollars spent on wars that did nothing to secure us, nothing to change the region, taught me that fighting back isn't always the path to success. You have to fight right, and you have to fight smart too. The US had a ton of goodwill from the world after 9/11 and squandered it so bad that Trump, who has now been elected resoundingly twice as a Republican, said on stage, in front of tons of Republicans that Republican President Bush was one of the worst presidents and his wars were disastrous mistakes and we should have never gone. Cheney, who architected those wars, and his family, are now global pariahs basically. Lashing out and wasting money and causing more problems and expecting a wallet refill? I saw that for 2 decades, and I'm done with it here, and I'm done with paying for it somewhere else too

thehappypm 2y ago

The GOP would rather the Ukraine war end (probably with Russia winning).