4 ms·

Apparently claiming the other side is worse in Gaza issue is not enough. Democratic voters simply refuse to turn out in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin

Apparently claiming the other side is worse in Gaza issue is not enough. Democratic voters simply refuse to turn out in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

Satam 2y ago
Is there reason to believe that the extra voters would've helped Kamala instead of Donald?
- eightysixfour 2y ago
  Not necessarily, but the total number of voters for both candidates is down compared to 2020. This election will be a story of who chose not to vote.
- tootie 2y ago
  Harris' vote total was down from Biden 2020 by 15M and Trump's was down from 2020 by like 4M. So a net 11M Dem voters didn't show up.
  - twohaibei 2y ago
    Only if you assume people who voted for Biden in 2020 would vote for Harris in 2024.
- culi 2y ago
  Because we know that those who didn't turnout who've voted before were mostly democrats
dcchambers 2y ago
You can't blame the swing states for this one. Trump over-performed polls EVERYWHERE and by the looks of it he dominated the popular vote.
- culi 2y ago
  Not really everywhere but most of the eastern half of the US. The popular vote should narrow to within 2 million votes. California still owes us over 7 million votes, mostly from blue cities. That alone should net Harris almost 3 million
mardifoufs 2y ago
What do you mean by worse? It's a hypothetical versus a very real year long conflict that killed tens of thousands, with unwavering support from Biden ( in terms of actual material support). They even openly support the invasion of Lebanon, something that even other Israeli allies seem to be much less enthusiastic about. Saying that it would be worse with the other side is absolutely meaningless, no other administration (red or blue) let something like this go on for a year and even expand to another invasion down the line.
- NoLinkToMe 2y ago
  Eh Trump doesn't care at all about Palestinian lives, nor do his followers, meaning he'd be able to give Netanyahu a carte blanche and trade it for political favours, and he's got the personality to do so. From Israeli intelligence sources itself, it was noted that the Hamas attacks were planned in part as a response to the abraham accords under trump (Israeli/Saudi appeasement and the movement of the US embassy to Jerusalem) which Hamas warned against. Third, Trump literally ensured the US was the first country on the planet to recognize Israel's domain over the Golan Heights, which is internationally viewed as annexed land. And it's likely further annexations will be recognised as well, with no recourse, leading to the gradual decline of the Palestinian political project to the point that it ceases to be an issue (e.g. look at US history, its 300 million non-native Americans are here to stay, it's a political non-issue) So yes, Trump is worse. Not only did his middle-east policy help cause the escalations in the first place, recognize Israel's annexations, Israel would be even more free to run wild in Palestine than before. It is worse. Just look at how happy Netanyahu is with the Trump victory is all you need to know.
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    How many palestinians died during the Trump administration? More importantly, what did Biden do that didn't amount to full Israeli support? Like, you are again arguing about more abstract stuff, whereas no matter what Biden or Trump say, the reality is that Israel has been left to do whatever it wants, with full american material, for a year now. That's almost unprecedented and that's my entire point. And even if we go by what they say instead of what they do and did, Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. The Biden administration has openly supported the Israeli escalation in Lebanon very recently. And has shown absolutely no care for putting an end to this (other countries like France for example, supported Israel in Gaza but openly condemned what happened in Lebanon). Again, Trump is a lot of things, but he does not seem to like war. Biden on the other hand seems rather unbothered, and tries to pretend to care while providing almost the entirety of the munitions that Israel has been using to genocide Gaza and invade Lebanon. But at least he doesn't recognize more Israeli annexations I guess (not that he ever condemned the settlements or did anything against the current settlements either, but hey he's just the president, not someone with power to do something about it right?). So to see the mental gymnastics that Democrats do to openly support Biden while also sweeping under the rug the dire consequences of his foreign policy behind 'both sides would do it' is extremely off-putting. The side that's doing it right now is the side that they are actively openly supporting! I guess I am biased as I have close friends that had to flee from their homes and had their entire family properties obliterated in Gaza but still. Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ?

Apparently claiming the other side is worse in Gaza issue is not enough. Democratic voters simply refuse to turn out in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

Satam 2y ago

Is there reason to believe that the extra voters would've helped Kamala instead of Donald?

eightysixfour 2y ago
Not necessarily, but the total number of voters for both candidates is down compared to 2020. This election will be a story of who chose not to vote.
tootie 2y ago
Harris' vote total was down from Biden 2020 by 15M and Trump's was down from 2020 by like 4M. So a net 11M Dem voters didn't show up.
- twohaibei 2y ago
  Only if you assume people who voted for Biden in 2020 would vote for Harris in 2024.
culi 2y ago
Because we know that those who didn't turnout who've voted before were mostly democrats

dcchambers 2y ago

You can't blame the swing states for this one. Trump over-performed polls EVERYWHERE and by the looks of it he dominated the popular vote.

culi 2y ago
Not really everywhere but most of the eastern half of the US. The popular vote should narrow to within 2 million votes. California still owes us over 7 million votes, mostly from blue cities. That alone should net Harris almost 3 million

mardifoufs 2y ago

What do you mean by worse? It's a hypothetical versus a very real year long conflict that killed tens of thousands, with unwavering support from Biden ( in terms of actual material support). They even openly support the invasion of Lebanon, something that even other Israeli allies seem to be much less enthusiastic about. Saying that it would be worse with the other side is absolutely meaningless, no other administration (red or blue) let something like this go on for a year and even expand to another invasion down the line.

NoLinkToMe 2y ago
Eh Trump doesn't care at all about Palestinian lives, nor do his followers, meaning he'd be able to give Netanyahu a carte blanche and trade it for political favours, and he's got the personality to do so. From Israeli intelligence sources itself, it was noted that the Hamas attacks were planned in part as a response to the abraham accords under trump (Israeli/Saudi appeasement and the movement of the US embassy to Jerusalem) which Hamas warned against. Third, Trump literally ensured the US was the first country on the planet to recognize Israel's domain over the Golan Heights, which is internationally viewed as annexed land. And it's likely further annexations will be recognised as well, with no recourse, leading to the gradual decline of the Palestinian political project to the point that it ceases to be an issue (e.g. look at US history, its 300 million non-native Americans are here to stay, it's a political non-issue) So yes, Trump is worse. Not only did his middle-east policy help cause the escalations in the first place, recognize Israel's annexations, Israel would be even more free to run wild in Palestine than before. It is worse. Just look at how happy Netanyahu is with the Trump victory is all you need to know.
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  How many palestinians died during the Trump administration? More importantly, what did Biden do that didn't amount to full Israeli support? Like, you are again arguing about more abstract stuff, whereas no matter what Biden or Trump say, the reality is that Israel has been left to do whatever it wants, with full american material, for a year now. That's almost unprecedented and that's my entire point. And even if we go by what they say instead of what they do and did, Trump at least keeps hammering the point that the war will need to stop as soon as possible. The Biden administration has openly supported the Israeli escalation in Lebanon very recently. And has shown absolutely no care for putting an end to this (other countries like France for example, supported Israel in Gaza but openly condemned what happened in Lebanon). Again, Trump is a lot of things, but he does not seem to like war. Biden on the other hand seems rather unbothered, and tries to pretend to care while providing almost the entirety of the munitions that Israel has been using to genocide Gaza and invade Lebanon. But at least he doesn't recognize more Israeli annexations I guess (not that he ever condemned the settlements or did anything against the current settlements either, but hey he's just the president, not someone with power to do something about it right?). So to see the mental gymnastics that Democrats do to openly support Biden while also sweeping under the rug the dire consequences of his foreign policy behind 'both sides would do it' is extremely off-putting. The side that's doing it right now is the side that they are actively openly supporting! I guess I am biased as I have close friends that had to flee from their homes and had their entire family properties obliterated in Gaza but still. Ps: Netanyahu reacted to Biden's victory in a rather similar way, so what would that mean ?