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I think you're putting words in my mouth. IMO in this scenario the medical decision-making process should weigh both lives equally. Doctors make life-and-death

by gred 2y ago

I think you're putting words in my mouth. IMO in this scenario the medical decision-making process should weigh both lives equally. Doctors make life-and-death decisions all the time, and I'm OK with that as long as one life is not considered "lesser". I understand that reasonable people can disagree on when life truly starts, though.

siffin 2y ago
Doctors aren't doing that though, they're saying they won't touch people in case they are seen to be breaking laws, and people are already dying, how can you not understand the nuance?
- gred 2y ago
  Which laws, and which doctors?
  - tzs 2y ago
    Here's one recent example: https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-mis...
    - gred 2y ago
      Thank you for the example, I do hope that they clarify that gray area in the law. It's a tough situation; they were dealing with probabilities (sometimes infections occur, and sometimes these infections lead to death) rather than a clear-cut "we can save one of these two lives if we perform an abortion".
      - siffin 2y ago
        Funny how treatment like this used to be a clear-cut decision made by the only experts who can make it (medical professionals), but now innocent people and babies are dying because of peoples random religious beliefs, that obviously have nothing to do with medicine. It has nothing to do with medicine because there isn't a doctor in the world who would willingly let a patient die when they could have treated them - unless they believe they will end up in jail for it - which is exactly what is happening - and that blood is on your hands for defending this absolute crap.
        gred 2y ago
        Your calculus ignores the hundreds of thousands of unborn lives that will be saved by allowing states to democratically establish their own abortion laws. Since you do not recognize the massive benefit, you see only the cost... I can understand your frustration, but perhaps you can understand why I don't share it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
arp242 2y ago
Putting aside the general disagreement on the topic, one of the major concerns is all of this isn't really happening, with some of these laws and prosecutions just being so strict. Take [1] for example: when doctors are unable or afraid to intervene even when the baby has already died. It's just so completely unnecessary and purely the result of an overly strict abortion ban. This is hardly the first or only story of its kind. [1]: https://people.com/texas-teen-suffering-miscarriage-dies-due-to-abortion-ban-8738512 https://people.com/texas-teen-suffering-miscarriage-dies-due...

by gred 2y ago

siffin 2y ago

Doctors aren't doing that though, they're saying they won't touch people in case they are seen to be breaking laws, and people are already dying, how can you not understand the nuance?

gred 2y ago
Which laws, and which doctors?
- tzs 2y ago
  Here's one recent example: https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-mis...
  - gred 2y ago
    Thank you for the example, I do hope that they clarify that gray area in the law. It's a tough situation; they were dealing with probabilities (sometimes infections occur, and sometimes these infections lead to death) rather than a clear-cut "we can save one of these two lives if we perform an abortion".
    - siffin 2y ago
      Funny how treatment like this used to be a clear-cut decision made by the only experts who can make it (medical professionals), but now innocent people and babies are dying because of peoples random religious beliefs, that obviously have nothing to do with medicine. It has nothing to do with medicine because there isn't a doctor in the world who would willingly let a patient die when they could have treated them - unless they believe they will end up in jail for it - which is exactly what is happening - and that blood is on your hands for defending this absolute crap.
      - gred 2y ago
        Your calculus ignores the hundreds of thousands of unborn lives that will be saved by allowing states to democratically establish their own abortion laws. Since you do not recognize the massive benefit, you see only the cost... I can understand your frustration, but perhaps you can understand why I don't share it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

arp242 2y ago

Putting aside the general disagreement on the topic, one of the major concerns is all of this isn't really happening, with some of these laws and prosecutions just being so strict. Take [1] for example: when doctors are unable or afraid to intervene even when the baby has already died. It's just so completely unnecessary and purely the result of an overly strict abortion ban. This is hardly the first or only story of its kind. [1]: https://people.com/texas-teen-suffering-miscarriage-dies-due-to-abortion-ban-8738512 https://people.com/texas-teen-suffering-miscarriage-dies-due...