6 ms·

You forget that America is the cause of many countries’ problems, see the Middle East and South America for prime examples.

by wrren 2y ago

nathanaldensr 2y ago
If you cared to ask you will discover that a huge cohort of people "on the right" do not want the US involved in foreign entanglements, including with Israel.
t43562 2y ago
More like the solution - Iraq threatened all of the Middle East. So does Iran. America is a security guarantee to countries who don't make a noise about it all. As can be seen in Africa now, if America doesn't intervene then Russia or China will - there's no nice safe forum to criticise such actions in Russia. Sri Lanka - poor old Tamils got "sorted" with Chinese help. Then the US oil price will go up no matter how isolationist it tries to be. That will hit people's pockets.
- dspillett 2y ago
  > More like the solution … goes on to suggest that the US is getting involved for everyone's good, then… > Then the US oil price will go up … hit people's pockets. states one of the few reasons the US political system really cares about these places in the slightest.
  - t43562 2y ago
    All countries do what suits them. Fortunately that's sometimes the same thing.
- smatija 2y ago
  Tell that to 12 million victims of US in Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
  - t43562 2y ago
    I think the South Koreans are extremely grateful not to be part of the North. That's a terrible example for you to pick. Iraq...well they might not be too happy but I bet their neighbors insisted on Hussein being sorted out. etc etc. It isn't noble, it's practical. The US protects countries that supply oil to it. Korea turns out to be an extremely important ally and part of the world economy....etc.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      >Iraq...well they might not be too happy I lot of Iraqis are very happy the US intervened, even though IMO it was a terrible move for many reasons (starting with the BS about WMD). The sunnis that supported Saddam didn't like it of course, but the other groups he oppressed were happy about the US invasion.
crabbone 2y ago
US is not the cause of the problems in the Middle East. It has interests in the Middle East. The problems in the region were created by the people inhabiting the region. If anything, US foreign politics sometimes come as detached from the reality of the problems of the area rather than creating those. I don't know what makes Americans take so much credit for the bad things that they hadn't contributed to all that much.
- simiones 2y ago
  The US is directly responsible for millions of deaths in the Middle East. It's supporting Israel's genocide right now, and would have continued to do so whichever candidate won. It's arming Saudi Arabia to help its war in Yemen. It killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan, and armed the Taliban before that (back when the USSR was also killing Afghans by the hundreds of thousands). It participated in the coup against Iran's last democratic government (together with the UK), re-installing the deposed Shah (he was later deposed yet again, but this time by fundamentalist revolutionaries, instead of the democracy that had replaced him last time). Before the revolution, they the Shah with the start of nuclear tech, which formed the basis of the current Iran nuclear program. They then supported Saddam and had him attack Iran, before later losing control of him as well. Now, the root cause of many of the worse issues in the Middle East is in fact not the USA, but the British Empire, which drew most of the insane borders of Middle East states that are causing problems to this day. But the USA proudly took on the mantle of main meddler in the region in the last 50-70 years.
  - crabbone 2y ago
    Millions of deaths? Where do you get your numbers from? The bloodiest war in the Middle East, the Syrian Civil War maybe has a million killed... all other conflicts in this area have low two-digit figures. Iraqi campaign, since the very start in 2003 has total killed at around 100k-200k, which, I believe, is the second bloodiest war in that area. To give this some context: Iran-Iraq war, where US didn't really participate, scored 1m-2m deaths. And of those killed in the conflicts, overwhelming majority were killed by the locals, in order to further some local ideology, gain some local control etc. Military, I'd imagine, US may be directly responsible for some couple thousands deaths, maybe dozens of thousands. But that's it. US has absolutely no reason to waste troops and ammo on killing a bunch of nobodies in ME. That furthers no military or political goals. Even if you believe that US is colonial / militaristic or whatever other sticker you like, US is pragmatic in what it's doing. There's just no point in killing many people. It's a waste of resources. Also, you obviously have never been to ME, and have no clue of what's going on there right now. The idea that Israel is somehow performing genocide is, again, laughable. Yes, they don't care about how many people in Gaza will die. But that's it. They don't care. The Israelis want the deplorables behind the fence to stop launching rockets at them. If that means that the civilians will die behind the fence--so be it. Genocide is when a state kills off everyone belonging to a particular group, no matter what that group does. Israeli military nor police nor any other force has no programs of exterminating Gazans. It's just not useful, there's nothing to be gained from it. And it would've been a huge investment in terms of paying salaries to the force hired to perform the alleged genocide, to organize the logistics around it etc. It's truly bizarre how someone can come up with such b/s ideas and never have a reality check. The same, I imagine, goes for Saudi Arabia. They don't want the deplorables from Yemen to shoot at their oil drilling installations. They don't care about the lives of the people on the other side of the fence. In fact, they probably don't see them as people at all. But they don't care enough about them to organize a genocide. That's just too expensive, unproductive and wasteful. As for Iran, you are missing the point: US has interests in the area, that's why they choose to side with this or the other political / social group and support / oppose some groups. They aren't responsible for what those groups want or do. The Iranian revolution happened because people in Iran revolted. Not because US organized it.

You forget that America is the cause of many countries’ problems, see the Middle East and South America for prime examples.

by wrren 2y ago

You forget that America is the cause of many countries’ problems, see the Middle East and South America for prime examples.

nathanaldensr 2y ago

If you cared to ask you will discover that a huge cohort of people "on the right" do not want the US involved in foreign entanglements, including with Israel.

t43562 2y ago

More like the solution - Iraq threatened all of the Middle East. So does Iran. America is a security guarantee to countries who don't make a noise about it all. As can be seen in Africa now, if America doesn't intervene then Russia or China will - there's no nice safe forum to criticise such actions in Russia. Sri Lanka - poor old Tamils got "sorted" with Chinese help. Then the US oil price will go up no matter how isolationist it tries to be. That will hit people's pockets.

dspillett 2y ago
> More like the solution … goes on to suggest that the US is getting involved for everyone's good, then… > Then the US oil price will go up … hit people's pockets. states one of the few reasons the US political system really cares about these places in the slightest.
- t43562 2y ago
  All countries do what suits them. Fortunately that's sometimes the same thing.
smatija 2y ago
Tell that to 12 million victims of US in Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
- t43562 2y ago
  I think the South Koreans are extremely grateful not to be part of the North. That's a terrible example for you to pick. Iraq...well they might not be too happy but I bet their neighbors insisted on Hussein being sorted out. etc etc. It isn't noble, it's practical. The US protects countries that supply oil to it. Korea turns out to be an extremely important ally and part of the world economy....etc.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >Iraq...well they might not be too happy I lot of Iraqis are very happy the US intervened, even though IMO it was a terrible move for many reasons (starting with the BS about WMD). The sunnis that supported Saddam didn't like it of course, but the other groups he oppressed were happy about the US invasion.

crabbone 2y ago

US is not the cause of the problems in the Middle East. It has interests in the Middle East. The problems in the region were created by the people inhabiting the region. If anything, US foreign politics sometimes come as detached from the reality of the problems of the area rather than creating those. I don't know what makes Americans take so much credit for the bad things that they hadn't contributed to all that much.

simiones 2y ago
The US is directly responsible for millions of deaths in the Middle East. It's supporting Israel's genocide right now, and would have continued to do so whichever candidate won. It's arming Saudi Arabia to help its war in Yemen. It killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan, and armed the Taliban before that (back when the USSR was also killing Afghans by the hundreds of thousands). It participated in the coup against Iran's last democratic government (together with the UK), re-installing the deposed Shah (he was later deposed yet again, but this time by fundamentalist revolutionaries, instead of the democracy that had replaced him last time). Before the revolution, they the Shah with the start of nuclear tech, which formed the basis of the current Iran nuclear program. They then supported Saddam and had him attack Iran, before later losing control of him as well. Now, the root cause of many of the worse issues in the Middle East is in fact not the USA, but the British Empire, which drew most of the insane borders of Middle East states that are causing problems to this day. But the USA proudly took on the mantle of main meddler in the region in the last 50-70 years.
- crabbone 2y ago
  Millions of deaths? Where do you get your numbers from? The bloodiest war in the Middle East, the Syrian Civil War maybe has a million killed... all other conflicts in this area have low two-digit figures. Iraqi campaign, since the very start in 2003 has total killed at around 100k-200k, which, I believe, is the second bloodiest war in that area. To give this some context: Iran-Iraq war, where US didn't really participate, scored 1m-2m deaths. And of those killed in the conflicts, overwhelming majority were killed by the locals, in order to further some local ideology, gain some local control etc. Military, I'd imagine, US may be directly responsible for some couple thousands deaths, maybe dozens of thousands. But that's it. US has absolutely no reason to waste troops and ammo on killing a bunch of nobodies in ME. That furthers no military or political goals. Even if you believe that US is colonial / militaristic or whatever other sticker you like, US is pragmatic in what it's doing. There's just no point in killing many people. It's a waste of resources. Also, you obviously have never been to ME, and have no clue of what's going on there right now. The idea that Israel is somehow performing genocide is, again, laughable. Yes, they don't care about how many people in Gaza will die. But that's it. They don't care. The Israelis want the deplorables behind the fence to stop launching rockets at them. If that means that the civilians will die behind the fence--so be it. Genocide is when a state kills off everyone belonging to a particular group, no matter what that group does. Israeli military nor police nor any other force has no programs of exterminating Gazans. It's just not useful, there's nothing to be gained from it. And it would've been a huge investment in terms of paying salaries to the force hired to perform the alleged genocide, to organize the logistics around it etc. It's truly bizarre how someone can come up with such b/s ideas and never have a reality check. The same, I imagine, goes for Saudi Arabia. They don't want the deplorables from Yemen to shoot at their oil drilling installations. They don't care about the lives of the people on the other side of the fence. In fact, they probably don't see them as people at all. But they don't care enough about them to organize a genocide. That's just too expensive, unproductive and wasteful. As for Iran, you are missing the point: US has interests in the area, that's why they choose to side with this or the other political / social group and support / oppose some groups. They aren't responsible for what those groups want or do. The Iranian revolution happened because people in Iran revolted. Not because US organized it.