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I get this line of reasoning, but the US economy is thriving, unemployment is low and wages are growing rapidly at the low end too. Nazi ideology doesn't work

by svara 2y ago

I get this line of reasoning, but the US economy is thriving, unemployment is low and wages are growing rapidly at the low end too. Nazi ideology doesn't work well as a comparison in my opinion, because Weimar Germany was crippled by reparations, hyperinflation, mass unemployment, an acute world economic crisis and traumatized from a devastating war. The US is nowhere close to any of that, it's doing pretty well all in all.

rincebrain 2y ago
This disconnect is, I think, the point. There are a number of people who feel they're doing pretty shittily right now, no matter what people's metrics say, and "no you're not" is not a particularly constructive response. I'm not an economist, I have no detailed explanation to offer for this disconnect, but I personally know a number of people outside of tech who are not fiscally irresponsible, but are struggling to reliably keep food on the table without consuming their savings - most frequently because they have some health condition that necessitates costly things, and their pay at work has not kept pace as cost of living increases have happened. So I have little trouble believing people in similar straits could vote for someone who made bigger swings about "I know you're hurting".
- metabagel 2y ago
  Well, it's also the effect of Fox News, right wing radio, and right wing leaning podcasts which convince people to focus on issues which can be leveraged for political gain. There are lots of problems, but right wing voters are convinced to stew about a relatively small subset of the totality. And regarding those problems they also are only ever presented with a subset of available rationales and solutions. This also simplifies things for them. Instead of the myriad of real problems in the world, conservatives can concentrate on only a few, all of which have simple rationales and simple solutions.
phs318u 2y ago
The US economy is not thriving for a very large swathe of the population. The extreme disparities in wealth, the non-reporting of under-employment (as opposed to unemployment) all skew statistics. https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/low-unemployment-statistics-are-misleading-economic-hardship-is-much-worse/ https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/low-unemployment-stati...
e40 2y ago
> I get this line of reasoning, but the US economy is thriving, unemployment is low and wages are growing rapidly at the low end too. Many make this mistake. The stock market is thriving. Some people are thriving. Many people are not. They are stuck in low wage service jobs. It’s not about unemployment.
- metabagel 2y ago
  There was a global pandemic. We are in a recovery. The U.S. is doing far better than Europe in our recovery. We are basically most of the way back, and people will start to feel better next year. Trump will benefit despite having done nothing.
  - e40 2y ago
    I agree he will benefit from some people doing better, but there are structural things which have been brewing for years. Yes, houses became much less affordable during the pandemic, and rents soared then, too, but that won't be fixed any time soon. The fact that men go to college at a much lower rate and the non-college jobs suck, that won't be fixed quickly either. There is a movement to on-shore manufacturing again, but that will take decades. In general, Trump will benefit from the recovery of the last several years. It's unfortunate that many people don't understand how this stuff works.

by svara 2y ago

rincebrain 2y ago

This disconnect is, I think, the point. There are a number of people who feel they're doing pretty shittily right now, no matter what people's metrics say, and "no you're not" is not a particularly constructive response. I'm not an economist, I have no detailed explanation to offer for this disconnect, but I personally know a number of people outside of tech who are not fiscally irresponsible, but are struggling to reliably keep food on the table without consuming their savings - most frequently because they have some health condition that necessitates costly things, and their pay at work has not kept pace as cost of living increases have happened. So I have little trouble believing people in similar straits could vote for someone who made bigger swings about "I know you're hurting".

metabagel 2y ago
Well, it's also the effect of Fox News, right wing radio, and right wing leaning podcasts which convince people to focus on issues which can be leveraged for political gain. There are lots of problems, but right wing voters are convinced to stew about a relatively small subset of the totality. And regarding those problems they also are only ever presented with a subset of available rationales and solutions. This also simplifies things for them. Instead of the myriad of real problems in the world, conservatives can concentrate on only a few, all of which have simple rationales and simple solutions.

phs318u 2y ago

The US economy is not thriving for a very large swathe of the population. The extreme disparities in wealth, the non-reporting of under-employment (as opposed to unemployment) all skew statistics. https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/low-unemployment-statistics-are-misleading-economic-hardship-is-much-worse/ https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/low-unemployment-stati...

e40 2y ago

> I get this line of reasoning, but the US economy is thriving, unemployment is low and wages are growing rapidly at the low end too. Many make this mistake. The stock market is thriving. Some people are thriving. Many people are not. They are stuck in low wage service jobs. It’s not about unemployment.

metabagel 2y ago
There was a global pandemic. We are in a recovery. The U.S. is doing far better than Europe in our recovery. We are basically most of the way back, and people will start to feel better next year. Trump will benefit despite having done nothing.
- e40 2y ago
  I agree he will benefit from some people doing better, but there are structural things which have been brewing for years. Yes, houses became much less affordable during the pandemic, and rents soared then, too, but that won't be fixed any time soon. The fact that men go to college at a much lower rate and the non-college jobs suck, that won't be fixed quickly either. There is a movement to on-shore manufacturing again, but that will take decades. In general, Trump will benefit from the recovery of the last several years. It's unfortunate that many people don't understand how this stuff works.