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Is there some statistical analysis on the reason people vote trump ? I refuse to believe the narrative that Americans are just a bunch of redneck retarded bigot

Is there some statistical analysis on the reason people vote trump ? I refuse to believe the narrative that Americans are just a bunch of redneck retarded bigots. Tried to Google it but all I find is a bunch of American news website like CNN and website like https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-trump-voters https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-t... I'm trying to look beyond the propaganda, any idea if there has been scientific studies or anything remotely credible ?

svara 2y ago
If you have access to the Economist this selection of reader's letters in response to their endorsement of Harris is quite enlightening. https://www.economist.com/letters/2024/11/04/letters-to-the-editor https://www.economist.com/letters/2024/11/04/letters-to-the-...
- MaKey 2y ago
  Non-paywalled link: https://archive.is/QRAyX https://archive.is/QRAyX
- nosianu 2y ago
  I just did. Unfortunately I did not learn much. The first few letters were pro-Trump, but with for me unconvincing reasoning, I think OP asked for something better - and I read it because I too wanted to hear something with more substance. Most letters were even against Trump. Most pro Trump arguments seem to be some vague statements about freedom of speech and "weaponizing of the Justice Department", which I find unconvincing given the things Trump said several times during the last few months, indicating he would do exactly that and worse. The letters are as vague as this example: > My concern is that Ms Harris will at a minimum continue the leftist direction of America that has been pursued, or at least tolerated, by Joe Biden. Not to mention the violation of basic constitutional rights that the president tried to introduce with his vaccine mandate during the pandemic. or > Mr Trump will cut bureaucracy and regulations to unleash creativity and productivity in the American economy, especially manufacturing. Ms Harris will inflict taxes and spending that will spur higher deficits and inflation. or > You overlooked the unacceptable risks posed by the Democratic Party and Vice-President Harris. These include support for censorship, political correctness, selective prosecution and soft totalitarianism. The Republicans spend more, impose tariffs, and obsess on immigration whereas the Democrats tax more, regulate more and censor. Neither party confronts the hard choices required to limit monetary expansion, deficits and entitlements that gnaw at the dollar. I choose the Republicans because I value freedom of speech and oppose the totalitarianism implied in weaponising the Justice Department. and that's most of the pro-Trump statements already. I have no doubt the arguments exist, and those I wanted to hear, because I too share OPs question.
  - svara 2y ago
    I think you're dismissing their points too easily. You may think they're wrong, but I find it entirely plausible and convincing that that is just exactly what they believe.
    - nosianu 2y ago
      Wrong? I made no such statement! I was talking about the quality of the argument, not about the direction. I'm not "dismissing" anything either. I have no opinion on Trump vs. Harris, as strange as that sounds to those with strong believes. I merely observe that OP asked for arguments, and that link points to opinion letters that don't even attempt to make one. Which is fine for them - this is about this sub-thread's context. OP asked for arguments and the link does not provide them, this is not a dismissal of whatever is going on in that linked page itself, only whether it serves to satisfy OPs request here.
  - gwd 2y ago
    > My concern is that Ms Harris will at a minimum continue the leftist direction of America that has been pursued, or at least tolerated, by Joe Biden. Well there's this sort of thing: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/colorado-baker-loses-appeal-over-refusal-make-gender-transition-cake-2023-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/colorado-baker-lose... If you think there are plenty of places out there to get a wedding cake or a gender transition cake, and people should just leave people alone whom they disagree with, who do you vote for?
stuaxo 2y ago
Oligarchs owning most of the media has to be a factor in voting in all this. (Why else would they own such "lossmaking" businesses).
- sumo89 2y ago
  Not just generic oligarchs but specifically Fox.
  - imoverclocked 2y ago
    ... and the network formerly known as Twitter.
    - hughesjj 2y ago
      You know, nothing gives me competence in my incompetence than seeing just how fucking successful Trump and Elon have been despite their lack of competence
  - cogman10 2y ago
    It really isn't just fox. You especially see it if you pay attention to framing. On every mainstream platform, social issues are always first and foremost framed as "how can we afford this expensive social program!?!". It's always business friendly and worker hostile.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Have you read the New York Times, CNN, or Washington Post for instance? It was a major deal that Biden's health was declining and he showed signs of dementia. But when Trump displays similar symptoms there's dead silence. There's a consistent "sane washing" of the crazy things Trump says across nearly all media and the double standard is unreal.
    - amarcheschi 2y ago
      I swear that has been something that, as an European person, left me quite speechless. We've heard a lot about Biden mental situation, but nothing about the other guy struggling as well
fny 2y ago
Housing prices and rent.
cryptozeus 2y ago
[flagged]
- bagels 2y ago
  Twitter is a biased sample
  - cryptozeus 2y ago
    See this interaction, I would encourage you to try again. I think its more closed to reality than based. People complained about google not showing election sites for trump on google, then goggle came out and acknowledged this. I don’t see this type of interactions anywhere. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1853902675441578146 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1853902675441578146
n2d4 2y ago
It's anecdotal, but the easiest way to understand them is to just travel to a conservative state and talk to them. Even if you won't agree, you'll see that they exist
- delichon 2y ago
  In the bluest district of the bluest state you still don't have to leave the neighborhood to find them. And visa versa.
- karmakurtisaani 2y ago
  To be fair, that is not easy in any practical sense of the word for most of us.
  - lazyeye 2y ago
    lol...
  - imoverclocked 2y ago
    I live outside the SF Bay Area in the hills. I'll vouch for the thought here. Several of my neighbors wear Trump's mark.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Even in Harlem you'd probably don't have to walk more than 50 yards to talk to someone. It is strange how there is this superficial notion that areas are 'Blu' or 'Red'.
  - n2d4 2y ago
    I thought the implicit assumption in their comment was that OP/grandparent isn't American.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      Oh. Makes sense.
light_hue_1 2y ago
This is the best that I've seen https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/03/opinion/election-focus-groups.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/03/opinion/election-focus-gr... Biden is wildly unpopular, Harris is his right hand, she didn't get put up by any competitive process, and she never promised change to a country that very much wants it. The nyt always considered her the worst possible option from day 1, aside from Biden. This shouldn't be a surprise.
- Gasp0de 2y ago
  Unfortunately, it seems the article can't be viewed without signing up.
  - mportela 2y ago
    https://archive.is/DFbWQ https://archive.is/DFbWQ
- hughesjj 2y ago
  DNC really channeling that "don't get fired" energy
- aucisson_masque 2y ago
  That's actually interesting, thank you.
TrackerFF 2y ago
Time and time again, polls have showed that "economy and inflation" was the leading cause. After that immigration.
- atoav 2y ago
  Yeah, but you have to be somewhat deranged to trust a multiple bancrupt and proven grifter with that — especially since the economic record of his last administration hasn't been stellar at all. But if you are lucky he will allow you vote for the other side in 4 years again and then you will vote republicans after and back and forth we go.
- seb1204 2y ago
  In school back then I learned about the American melting pot of people from everywhere. Is this no longer the case?
  - thebigspacefuck 2y ago
    Recently there’s been an influx of illegal immigrants from Venezuela including some associated with Tren de Aragua that have been highly publicized and politicized. While most people do want America to be a melting pot of people from everywhere, whether you want your borders so wide open to allow criminals and gangs to sneak in is another question, and also probably something we all agree on, but in this case one candidate has been in power and has appeared to have not solved the problems.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies. High inflation played a role too. It was pretty effectively curtailed but not fast enough to directly affect people’s lives before the election.
- panick21_ 2y ago
  In tons of the non-Trump races the anti-trans and anti-feminist ads have not worked well.
- major505 2y ago
  Is not only americans. Is most people, but they are afraid to tell and being labeled as biggots. Is a lot a things, economy for sure, but the demiocrafts passed 4 years calling half the country nazis and facists, and denying things that everyone could see like Biden health issues. This comes with a price.
  - m2024 2y ago
    [dead]
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies. I doubt most people like those two things. The difference is, they get insulted, shamed and targeted for social ostracisation if they let on what they don't like. Which results in the election results that you see - just because you've successfully silenced someone from expressing their opinion, that doesn't mean that you changed their vote.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  > Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies Americans (and people in general) do not care about social issues when they are hurting financially.
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
clumsysmurf 2y ago
You might find some insight here: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/trump-voters-like-lying-deception-feature/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/trump-voters-li... They discuss a paper "The Authentic Appeal of the Lying Demagogue: Proclaiming the Deeper Truth About Political Illegitimacy.” Which asks the Q: "H]ow can a constituency of voters find a candidate ‘authentically appealing’ (i.e., view him positively as authentic) even though he is a ‘lying demagogue’ (someone who deliberately tells lies and appeals to non-normative private prejudices)?” one A is: "Trump’s boldly false proclamations—about himself, about his rivals and critics, about the world—are not a bug. They’re a feature. They demonstrate he is sticking it to the other side. To the elites, the media, the establishment, the government, academia, Hollywood, the libs, the woke crowd, the minorities, the…whoever it is his supporters resent, despise, or disregard."
- FeepingCreature 2y ago
  That's also why in 2016, a year's worth of "Trump is terrible" articles only helped him - because the actual received message was "we, the people you despise, really would hate if Trump was elected". It's a sign of authenticity. Trump couldn't betray them, because he very evidently had nowhere else to go.
  - djtango 2y ago
    Aka polarisation. When Trump first won I conceptualised it as him arbitraging humanity/democracy's lack of preparedness for social media and the internet upending established flows of information. The solution at its heart is to reduce conflict and bridge the gap. I have enjoyed Zachary Elwoods most recent podcast episode showing how Trump is misquoted by traditional media outlets which has the negative effect of furthering the perception of bias.
melodyogonna 2y ago
If you use Twitter you would know. People hate the lackadaisical attitude to illegal immigration, the inflation in the economy, and the idealogy-centered government (yes, this has been a popular sore point).
- x3ro 2y ago
  I find it hilarious when people say democrats are "idealogy-centered government" [sic], but Trump isn't. What do those words mean to you? Are you saying that Trump has no ideology?..
  - chaos_emergent 2y ago
    As someone who voted for Harris, I’d say trump is less ideologically driven than democratic candidates. He’s insane and erratic, which don’t follow ideology.
    - amarcheschi 2y ago
      Oh, he definitely has an ideology if you've ever read about project 2025
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        But he doesn't openly argue for that. And that's all politics is. Optics.
        amarcheschi 2y ago
        Then Idk, he openly says that government agencies should have less power (epa, fda...). I mean, he doesn't sponsor this view, but he openly said he'll make musk give less and less agency to gov. Companies that aren't deemed worth of it, whatever it means
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
guerrilla 2y ago
[flagged]
- fastasucan 2y ago
  This is my conclusion as well. In many other western countries Donald Trump is a badly written movie charagter. In the US he is their best option for a president. "What about those that didnt vote for him" people may ask, but the fact that the democrats isnt able to provide an alternative better than Trump, and haven't been able to provide better politics than Trump says everything. 50% of the voting mass look at Trump and say "that is my president!", and millions cant even be bothered to show up to vote for someone else. This is America.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Trying to apply that stereotype to Elon Musk and Tulsi Gabbard seems awkward — both of whom endorsed Trump.
  - m2024 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    I honestly think that Elon Musk is just on a personal vendetta against anyone who bruised his ego. He can't stand that he was called out for his Thai diver "pedophile" comment or that his trans daughter openly disavows him. He specifically blames the "woke mindset" for the latter. So for him, it's probably just a "stick it to the libs" kind of thing.
    - melodyogonna 2y ago
      I don't think it was any of those, Elon and his mother have regularly referenced Tesla being snubbed at an EV Summit, and GM being praised as leading the EV transition in a quarter they (GM) delivered 42 electric cars to Tesla's 300,000. It is still a matter of bruised ego though, I think Elon Musk takes things like this very seriously.
willvarfar 2y ago
My take is that the democrats are being blamed for the ever higher cost of living. There are people who vote because they want the insular America and to bring jobs back from China/Mexico/etc, those who vote to burn down 'the establishment' because they feel no hope, and those who just hope that any change means cost of living drops.
- seb1204 2y ago
  Maybe I would like this too but there are still more steps to go to then believe that a proven liar will give it to them.
fastasucan 2y ago
After seeing this guy become elected for the second time I have come to the opposite conclusion. This is what America wants, and this is what America is. The rest of the world should acknowledge this and act accordingly, and the people of the US, especially the Democrats, should as well. Pretending like "this isn't us", "this isnt real america" is just keeping them from doing any real introspection.
- ravroid 2y ago
  Important to note that it's not what all of us Americans want, it's just what a little over half of the voting population voted for.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    Half the voting population who chose to vote voted for.
  - dartharva 2y ago
    "A little over half of the voting population" is literally all that matters here! The levels of cope here are astounding.
    - justin66 2y ago
      > all that matters! Some perspective is called for.
    - josephg 2y ago
      It’s all that matters in the presidential race. But barely over half of the population wanted him as president. The other side doesn’t disappear just because they lost an election.
      - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
        Talk about really problems with 'democracy' where 51% decides decides to thrust their views on the rest 49% . The concept is fundamentally flawed.
runarberg 2y ago
Your refusal to believe that is apt. People are not nearly as dumb as this narrative puts them out to be. This mindset is at best elitism, and ignores human agency. In reality every Trump voter has their own reason to behave this way. And their behavior is perfectly rational according to their own beliefs. My personal theory is that we have been grossly underestimating the potency of misinformation and disinformation propaganda on social media. Especially those which weaponizes peoples actual grievances with authority, and directs them in this way. Anybody can be a victim of misinformation (we see this in action with people that fall victims to scam), the misinformation you personally don’t fall victim to was probably not directed at you (see e.g. the Nigerian Prince filter for wire fraud scams). I think that even though humans are smart, and we have our own agency, there are also number of ways which our intelligence can be exploited. This is the case for scams, but also for misinformation propaganda. I think the real lesson here is in the failures of our democratic institutions to protect us from this exploitation.
- lazyeye 2y ago
  You start off by saying these people arent stupid, then go on to suggest they are easily manipulated by (what you think is) misinformation. Just not smart, like you I guess? Honestly, I think the kind of people you are sneering at are actually smarter than you as they would never make the kind of stupid, ignorant comment you've made here.
  - runarberg 2y ago
    Being susceptible to propaganda (or a scam for that matter) isn’t stupidity. We are all susceptible to it. It just varies which propaganda and to what degree. I never called Trump voters stupid. I think there may be a misunderstanding here because traditional discourse has people believe that only stupid people fall for misinformation propaganda (or a scam). I was explicitly rejecting that.
    - lazyeye 2y ago
      Is it possible that you are the one that has been manipulated by misinformation? Is it possible that people can disagree with you without "misinformation" being involved?
vdqtp3 2y ago
You have two options. If you listen to the American left and most media outlets, it's because Trump voters hate women, gays, foreigners, blacks, trans people, and progress - and to be fair, some do. If you listen to the people actually voting for Trump, it's because they fundamentally disagree with the basis for Harris' policies (and Clinton's before her) or the outcomes thereof.
- tmountain 2y ago
  Many have a very shallow understanding of policy and have also had their perspectives heavily influenced by propaganda from Fox News, etc. Ask the average Trump supporter how tarrifs work for a good example of what I’m describing.
  - dartharva 2y ago
    Are you implying that the average Harris supporter will fare better against such questions?
    - hughesjj 2y ago
      I think they're rebutting that an actual understanding of policy enters the equation at all
      - tmountain 2y ago
        Correct, most voters are making decisions based on emotions, and those emotions are heavily influenced by their information sources.
  - bagels 2y ago
    The few policies that were campaigned on are going to be harmful and counterproductive. I'm inclined to agree with the propaganda angle.
- atoav 2y ago
  Not from the US, but I really wonder: Do you guys got not feel shame if a person with that character and that track record runs your country? I mean sure: depending on your media diet you might find all his flaws acceptable, but ask yourself if Obama (or any other candidate) displayed the very same flaws if that would cause you outrage. If yes, you might need some introspection.
benjaminwootton 2y ago
Everyone is throwing ideas, excuses and explanations into the mix, but maybe people just want what he’s proposing - strict border control, low regulation, small government, low taxes, free speech etc. Im not American and barely engaged with politics at all but all of that sounds like a pretty good idea to me without looking at any stats or trying to find out why my fellow citizens were confused into making the wrong choice.
- anon22981 2y ago
  It isn’t about why his promises appeal to some people. The question is why people buy the ”free ice cream for all every day if I’m elected class president!” from a pedophile-rapist criminal. And instead of class presidency it’s real presidency. I wouldn’t trust literally anything in this guys hands’ and even less a country.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Except they're lies or false promises; low regulation is only for companies, allowing them to infringe on workers' rights, increase poverty, etc, which goes towards oligarchy. Small government means more power to less people, which goes towards autocracy. Low taxes means less money to social programs, which means people will literally die from being unable to afford health care, which is eugenics. Free speech for me but not for thee, it's Musk's flavour of free speech where words like "cis" are banned. But sure, on the surface they sound good I suppose.
mrweasel 2y ago
A friend of mine just sent me an article from a Danish newspaper where they cover the reasons as to why people would want to vote for someone like Trump. They interview Arlie Russell Hochschild who has written two books on the topic: "Strangers in Their Own Land" and "Stolen Pride". One explanation from Hochschild is that you have a group of disenfranchised votes, who see "everyone else" get to "jump the line" for help. Not only do they get to jump the line, they see the president (Obama back then) help these other people (immigrants, women, people of color, LGBTQ, an so on) move ahead of the line, while they are left behind to fend for themselves. I haven't read the books yet, but I definitely plan to. From the article it certainly sound like it would help me understand why some Americans vote the way they do.
- zmgsabst 2y ago
  Bigotry is unpopular with Americans. Even if you claim it’s noble bigotry because you’re discriminating against people with evil ancestors or who happen to share a sex with bad people.
- rendall 2y ago
  > "A friend of mine just sent me an article from a Danish newspaper where they cover the reasons as to why people would want to vote for someone like Trump...." And this illustrates the problem. Hochschild is a professor emeritus of sociology at Berkeley. Why in heaven's name would you think that good insights will be garnered by reading a Danish article about a book written by a Blue professor about another group of Red people... when you can go on x dot com and read for yourself why people voted as they did? I can say for certain - from reading and listening to what Trump voters have said themselves - that Trump voters are absolutely done with this kind of framing.
  - mrweasel 2y ago
    If your own political conviction influence your works as a professor, then you're perhaps not that great a professor, but if you do good work, then maybe you have the tools to write about that work and target it to a group of like minded people, communicating in a why that they/I better understand. Personally I'm not interested in going on Twitter, or Facebook, because those are going to be the most extreme people, at both ends. I'm also no prepared to do the filtering required to identify trolls or propaganda. My interest is in the vast majority of people who don't really have a voice online. I can't go out and talk to them, I'm on the other side of the planet. I'd still like to know why they vote the way they do, because I'm directly affected by how rural America votes. I wish I weren't, so I guess that's one opinion I share with Trump.
ookblah 2y ago
I mean, I grew up in a conservative state and a small/medium sized city that has always been red. Not every one is a "redneck retarded bigot". I don't think most of them aren't as openly racist as made out to be. Outside of politics you wouldn't even think anything was too out of the ordinary. That said, I'm not sure stuff like "He's annointed by God", "He tells it like it is/Isn't afraid to speak his mind", "Liberals are evil/devil/<insert literally any reason to hate them> " is stuff you want to hear, but it does represent a somewhat overall sentiment (generalized of course). More centered around ignorance and perceived old "conservative values". I find very few people actually able to articulate their points.
lazyeye 2y ago
[flagged]
throwaway65432 2y ago
"The thing that baffles me is that good and serious people have seen versions of what happened tonight in the US for eight years and are still surprised that people don’t see the world as they do. 1) Voters think “the economy” is “can I afford to live” NOT “we are doing better nationally than others”. Inflation is politically more important than GDP 2) Immigration matters, both the sense of control/uncontrolled and the raw numbers, particularly when money is tight. See 1 3) Don’t take voters for fools: in this case don’t insist a clearly gaga leader is up to the job 4) Don’t try to fight a charismatic opponent with someone who can’t answer basic questions about why they want to be in charge. The ability to communicate is not an optional extra for politicians, it is a core part of the job description 5) Go woke, go politically broke 6) What the metro elites regard as an illogical vote is not necessarily illogical for people who are struggling and angry - see 1,2,3,4,5 Personally I think democracy matters very much and some/much of what Trump says is appalling but until his opponents learn the lessons above, voters will keep voting for someone who manages to encapsulate what they feel" https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1854055061925560448 https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1854055061925560448
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  > Voters think “the economy” is “can I afford to live” NOT “we are doing better nationally than others”. They think correct, in the only sense that matters.
lelanthran 2y ago
> I refuse to believe the narrative that Americans are just a bunch of redneck retarded bigots. They aren't, really. That's just what a vocal minority calls them, said minority actually deluding themselves into thinking that they are the majority.
throw2343223434 2y ago
[flagged]
sensanaty 2y ago
You ever stop to think that maybe calling ~50% of the population of your country "a bunch of redneck retarded bigots" could perhaps have some part in it? The media pushing that narrative everywhere certainly doesn't help either. I'm not a Yank nor do I vote or care to ever vote, but if I were and all I ever saw was every mainstream source of news and media, including sites like Reddit and apparently even HN, calling me a retard (which funnily enough is a pretty bigoted insult coming from the supposed moral & good side) and a bigot non-stop I'd probably say "fuck it" and vote for the guy too. From where I'm sitting across the pond, the Republicans want stricter border control, smaller government, lower taxes, free speech (which itself is a loaded term that means different things depending on who's saying/hearing it), which is basically what the populist parties across the EU are promising as well.
- baq 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - zpeti 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - baq 2y ago
      Every far left extremist (which have no clue what communism even means) has an analogous far right extremist (who also have no clue what it actually means), both are idiots and shouldn't be let anywhere near government. Admittedly the US had a choice between someone unfit for office and a lawfully convicted felon, I don't envy this situation.
      - Spivak 2y ago
        What? Kamala would have done great, where is this coming from? Trump for better or worse is about to get Weekend at Bernie'd by his cabinet just like Biden did.
    - schwartzworld 2y ago
briandear 2y ago
I can give you my anecdote: I worked for Best Buy. They fired us and hired an Indian offshore team. They had H1B representatives in the U.S. that I had to spend three months training to do my job. H1B is supposed to be to fill critical shortages. There wasn’t a critical shortage because I existed and my entire team existed. Best Buy’s CEO preaches “inclusivity” and “the value of each employee” — while simultaneously firing Americans (and permanent residents) to lower costs — while making the vast majority of their profit selling products to Americans. The other reason I voted Trump was the Covid lockdowns and the attempted vaccine mandates. Blue states such as California had schools closed for over a year, while red states such as Texas and Florida quickly reopened. The type of government that would arrest a person surfing off of Santa Cruz is a government that has lost their mind. And anyone Dr Sarah Cody of Santa Clara county would support, I’m going to support the opposite. On a more subjective level — anyone that the establishment tries so hard to oppose-arrest-bankrupt-kill is worthy of my vote. When Dick Cheney endorsed Harris, the decision got really easy to support Trump. Also, see the Abraham Accords for why many support Trump on a foreign policy level. I don’t care about engaging in a debate and plenty will downvote simply because I’m not in their tribe — but while you asked for a scientific study, there isn’t one yet, but there are tens of millions of anecdotes like mine which should give you a good start. Not that it matters — my wife is an immigrant from Mexico and her entire family in the U.S. (who are all first generation citizens) — all voted Trump as well. Some make the mistake of assuming “immigrants” are all “undocumented.” There’s a huge difference in being anti-immigrant and anti-illegal-immigrant. The left-wing media fails to make the distinction. Also have a look at the so-called “Black” vote — they have a lot more nuance than the media would have you believe.
- notadoomer236 2y ago
  This is a great example, and you’re downvoted because liberals don’t like to hear the criticisms of their tribe. They ask why people would vote for Trump, you explain your anecdote, and they downvote you. Classic blue tribe behavior.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  I agree fully with your points. Covid restrictions were insane and will change my voting habits forever. What happened to "personal responsibility" in that time??
senda 2y ago
It's almost definitely the Bidens administration perceived failings to deal with inflation.
- andrewinardeer 2y ago
  Also add illegal immigration. People are seriously pissed off about it. My working theory is that this all stems from fear of foreigners/ xenophobia.
  - goatlover 2y ago
    What if I told you that a majority of legal immigrants and minorities don't like illegal immigration?
    - andrewinardeer 2y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised. Should I be?
keiferski 2y ago
Basically it's this: - The economy is what ultimately matters to many people, and the impression is that the economy has been bad for the last 4 years under Biden but was better under Trump. The actual data is more unclear and confusing, but the average person has this impression. - Harris wasn't likable/charismatic enough to many people, and was largely supported for her policies first and her personality second. Trump, on the other hand, went on a lot of longform podcasts, worked at McDonalds for a few hours, and generally seems more "human" to the average person. - A general sense of rage/dislike/push-back at "elites" in Washington DC, the coasts, the mainstream media organizations, etc. If you google "trust in government" or "trust in media", they will elaborate on this issue. Trump, although a billionaire from NYC, is generally disliked there and is perceived as being an outsider and rebel vs. the elite group mentioned. - Some protectionist policies Trump claims to support will benefit people in key battleground states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc Ultimately it comes down to two things, IMO: personal charisma and the economy. Everything else is only relevant in close elections.
- notadoomer236 2y ago
  Harris wasn’t just unlikeable. She came across as downright incompetent, a mediocrity elevated to the highest positions by the exact sort of identify focused criteria voters don’t want.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  > Harris wasn't likable/charismatic enough to many people, and was largely supported for her policies first and her personality second. Trump, on the other hand, went on a lot of longform podcasts, worked at McDonalds for a few hours, and generally seems more "human" to the average person. I would argue it was the other way round. They both went on podcasts etc and I'm debate and in rallies Trump was verging on incoherent and boring his own supporters. But on policy he was far stronger. I'm not American and I'm left wing but the trade and tax policies he's proposing do speak to traditional left wing, trade union workers: put up barriers to lower cost countries undercutting American workers. I don't know what Harris vision is, it seems she has trouble articulating it clearly.
  - 2y ago
zmgsabst 2y ago
This interview between Elon Musk and Joe Rogan explains — though I’m not sure the timestamp. Joe Rogan found it convincing enough to endorse Trump afterwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZl_5xHoBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZl_5xHoBw You could also watch the episode interviewing Trump. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY Or his VP, Vance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRyyTAs1XY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRyyTAs1XY8 Presumably the majority are people who agree with the message conveyed during such interviews.
mbg721 2y ago
Jason Pargin (author of John Dies at the End et al.) is pretty insightful on the perspective of Americans in dying small towns.
loehnsberg 2y ago
What‘s most striking is that a sober dialogue on opposing views/ideas has been replaced by partisanship and hatred of the othet side, whatever the subject. What do we need to do to get out of this mess?
- account42 2y ago
  > What do we need to do to get out of this mess? Ban short form media.
daniel_iversen 2y ago
I don't think there's a great mystery - what could possibly be the secret for why people voted for Trump you say? Probably the same reason why people vote for any other political candidate, right? Surely the simplest explanation is the most likely; they preferred him to the other candidate in some combination of what he brings vs. the other candidate? Some people are lifelong affiliates of a political party, sure, and that's less interesting and fruitful TBH, but for the "undecided" or "open-minded" voters I don't see how it's more complex Than they decided it based on the information at hand. Question is whether they were misinformed and how much the positive messages ("This is what we'll do") draws vs. "The other person will end the world" rhetoric. Thoughts?
ctchocula 2y ago
You have to understand American politics behind the rise of Trump. Since the 1980s and Reagan, Democrats had broken with their New Deal era coalition composed of union workers. Instead, Democrats have aligned with middle class knowledge workers, and pushed for neoliberal policy that have offshored many manufacturing jobs. This was seen as a betrayal to the working class. That has left many working class whites with high school degrees with low-paying service jobs, that gave them a lower standard of living compared to the union jobs their parents worked. This continued from Clinton to the Obama era. While Obamacare was a step in the right direction, it was seen as too little too late. It also had unintended consequences. For example, some of my part-time service job colleagues reported that pre-Obamacare, the employer could have them work 40 hours a week, because they weren't forced to provide them health insurance that met some minimum standard. However post-Obamacare, their hours were limited at 29 hours, which made it much harder to make a living. By 2016, there was an opioid addiction crisis composing largely of working whites with only a high school degree, and the economy was still suffering from the slower-than-possible recovery from the Great Recession. (Economists say it would've been faster with more stimulus, but Obama was cowed by his neoliberal econ advisors). Due to gridlock in the political system, immigration system reform was impossible, and Presidents could only use Executive Orders to try to mitigate (but not solve) the problem of an increasing number of illegal immigrants from the Southern border. All the pieces were in place: - Scapegoat: illegal immigrants - Weak economy: check - Disgruntled populace: check Feeling abandoned by both parties, the electorate went with an anti-establishment strongman demagogue who preyed on their hopes and fears. It's almost identical to the political environment that gave rise to Hitler and Mussolini. The saving grace for the US during Trump's first term has been her strong democratic institutions. Pray they hold up during his second and hopefully final term.
- hughesjj 2y ago
  Biden has been the most pro union president since the new deal though Totally agreed that neoliberalism is a cancer though
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  The american academic elite is a tiny minority who think they know best. They received a reality check today.
mellosouls 2y ago
'm trying to look beyond the propaganda, any idea if there has been scientific studies or anything remotely credible ? I'm afraid this is the problem - your implication is that Trump voters need explaining using scientific analysis as some sort of aberration. One day, there will hopefully be an analysis - but it will be of how among huge parts of the media and establishment this ideological view became the null hypothesis to the extent that people - in good faith - thought they were looking beyond the propoganda while asking questions like yours.
sakopov 2y ago
[flagged]
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thegabriele 2y ago
Becauase Trump is the champion of the name-calling politics and here we are in your comment, still playing his game.
vixen99 2y ago
Why not ask some of the distinguished conservative academics who support the likely (as I write) next President? By the way, how about turning the question round? I hope you do not think that's unthinkable.
selfmodruntime 2y ago
[flagged]
beltsazar 2y ago
You're asking as if the other candidate is a no-brainer choice. If the other candidate were Kennedy, then sure—but they were not. In this case, many would be undecided and would vote not the best candidate, but the least bad one.
gregwebs 2y ago
Get out of your bubble and listen to people. Hacker News is part of your bubble. The majority of people have picked a side long ago and are sticking to it. You want to talk to independents or people that have changed sides recently. The interesting thing for me was seeing the blowback from the woke movement. People I know that were raised Democrats and supported gay rights could no longer identify with the party supporting a movement that appeared to be telling them that they are racist (and BTW be careful or you might get cancelled) and that it would be great if their kids changed genders. This led them away from legacy media and towards opposite points of view. I am not claiming this was the decisive reason- just pointing out something that I don’t see talked about much. Listen to people and you will find other reasons.
theshrike79 2y ago
My theory is that a good portion of people didn't vote for "Trump", they voted for their party. That's the end of their thought process. Party affiliation is a huge part of people's culture and personality in the US, "We are a Republican family" is something people outside of the US wouldn't say out loud. They have always voted Republican and will always vote Republican even if it's against their interests.
deleted 2y ago
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csomar 2y ago
> Tried to Google it but all I find is a bunch of American news website like CNN and website like https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-t https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-t... > I'm trying to look beyond the propaganda, any idea if there has been scientific studies or anything remotely credible ? Exactly, they "propaganded" so hard that they created a narrative that they are the definitive winners. So you bought into their propaganda and now you are surprised. The reality is that the democrats are not that good and the people voted.
dools 2y ago
The only reason people vote for conservatives is because they're selfish or ignorant. This is obvious because there are 2 things in the economy: labour and capital. It is no coindence then that democracies invariably develop 2 parties. One of those parties ostensibly represents the intrests of labour. As such the other must represent the interests of capital. But how could a party that benefits so few, ever win a majority? Well, a combination of selfish people (those who benefit directly from the policies) and ignorant people (those who have been convinced by any number of falsehoods to vote against their own economic interests).
- deleted 2y ago
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throwaway345724 2y ago
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zulban 2y ago
Watch some long form right leaning podcasts.
ur-whale 2y ago
> Is there some statistical analysis on the reason people vote trump ? You could try to ask HN'ers who voted Trump why they did ... statistically speaking, folks on HN do not exactly strike me as fitting the "bunch of redneck retarded bigots" profile. Oh but wait, that would only be possible if admitting on HN that you supported Trump was not guaranteed to have the following effect: - starting flamewars, which might get you banned - being ostracized and attacked And turns out HN is IMO a reflection of what happens in US society at large: in the non-"bunch of redneck retarded bigots" social circles, telling people that you support Trump is career/social suicide. Except that more than half of the country supports him, so if you pick 100 people, even in the non-"bunch of redneck retarded bigots" circles, chances are, you know ... There is something deeply dysfunctional about a society where you have to hide your democratic choice for fear of being socially destroyed.

svara 2y ago

If you have access to the Economist this selection of reader's letters in response to their endorsement of Harris is quite enlightening. https://www.economist.com/letters/2024/11/04/letters-to-the-editor https://www.economist.com/letters/2024/11/04/letters-to-the-...

MaKey 2y ago
Non-paywalled link: https://archive.is/QRAyX https://archive.is/QRAyX
nosianu 2y ago
I just did. Unfortunately I did not learn much. The first few letters were pro-Trump, but with for me unconvincing reasoning, I think OP asked for something better - and I read it because I too wanted to hear something with more substance. Most letters were even against Trump. Most pro Trump arguments seem to be some vague statements about freedom of speech and "weaponizing of the Justice Department", which I find unconvincing given the things Trump said several times during the last few months, indicating he would do exactly that and worse. The letters are as vague as this example: > My concern is that Ms Harris will at a minimum continue the leftist direction of America that has been pursued, or at least tolerated, by Joe Biden. Not to mention the violation of basic constitutional rights that the president tried to introduce with his vaccine mandate during the pandemic. or > Mr Trump will cut bureaucracy and regulations to unleash creativity and productivity in the American economy, especially manufacturing. Ms Harris will inflict taxes and spending that will spur higher deficits and inflation. or > You overlooked the unacceptable risks posed by the Democratic Party and Vice-President Harris. These include support for censorship, political correctness, selective prosecution and soft totalitarianism. The Republicans spend more, impose tariffs, and obsess on immigration whereas the Democrats tax more, regulate more and censor. Neither party confronts the hard choices required to limit monetary expansion, deficits and entitlements that gnaw at the dollar. I choose the Republicans because I value freedom of speech and oppose the totalitarianism implied in weaponising the Justice Department. and that's most of the pro-Trump statements already. I have no doubt the arguments exist, and those I wanted to hear, because I too share OPs question.
- svara 2y ago
  I think you're dismissing their points too easily. You may think they're wrong, but I find it entirely plausible and convincing that that is just exactly what they believe.
  - nosianu 2y ago
    Wrong? I made no such statement! I was talking about the quality of the argument, not about the direction. I'm not "dismissing" anything either. I have no opinion on Trump vs. Harris, as strange as that sounds to those with strong believes. I merely observe that OP asked for arguments, and that link points to opinion letters that don't even attempt to make one. Which is fine for them - this is about this sub-thread's context. OP asked for arguments and the link does not provide them, this is not a dismissal of whatever is going on in that linked page itself, only whether it serves to satisfy OPs request here.
- gwd 2y ago
  > My concern is that Ms Harris will at a minimum continue the leftist direction of America that has been pursued, or at least tolerated, by Joe Biden. Well there's this sort of thing: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/colorado-baker-loses-appeal-over-refusal-make-gender-transition-cake-2023-01-26/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/colorado-baker-lose... If you think there are plenty of places out there to get a wedding cake or a gender transition cake, and people should just leave people alone whom they disagree with, who do you vote for?

stuaxo 2y ago

Oligarchs owning most of the media has to be a factor in voting in all this. (Why else would they own such "lossmaking" businesses).

sumo89 2y ago
Not just generic oligarchs but specifically Fox.
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  ... and the network formerly known as Twitter.
  - hughesjj 2y ago
    You know, nothing gives me competence in my incompetence than seeing just how fucking successful Trump and Elon have been despite their lack of competence
- cogman10 2y ago
  It really isn't just fox. You especially see it if you pay attention to framing. On every mainstream platform, social issues are always first and foremost framed as "how can we afford this expensive social program!?!". It's always business friendly and worker hostile.
- lawn 2y ago
  Have you read the New York Times, CNN, or Washington Post for instance? It was a major deal that Biden's health was declining and he showed signs of dementia. But when Trump displays similar symptoms there's dead silence. There's a consistent "sane washing" of the crazy things Trump says across nearly all media and the double standard is unreal.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    I swear that has been something that, as an European person, left me quite speechless. We've heard a lot about Biden mental situation, but nothing about the other guy struggling as well

fny 2y ago

Housing prices and rent.

cryptozeus 2y ago

[flagged]

bagels 2y ago
Twitter is a biased sample
- cryptozeus 2y ago
  See this interaction, I would encourage you to try again. I think its more closed to reality than based. People complained about google not showing election sites for trump on google, then goggle came out and acknowledged this. I don’t see this type of interactions anywhere. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1853902675441578146 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1853902675441578146

n2d4 2y ago

It's anecdotal, but the easiest way to understand them is to just travel to a conservative state and talk to them. Even if you won't agree, you'll see that they exist

delichon 2y ago
In the bluest district of the bluest state you still don't have to leave the neighborhood to find them. And visa versa.
karmakurtisaani 2y ago
To be fair, that is not easy in any practical sense of the word for most of us.
- lazyeye 2y ago
  lol...
- imoverclocked 2y ago
  I live outside the SF Bay Area in the hills. I'll vouch for the thought here. Several of my neighbors wear Trump's mark.
rightbyte 2y ago
Even in Harlem you'd probably don't have to walk more than 50 yards to talk to someone. It is strange how there is this superficial notion that areas are 'Blu' or 'Red'.
- n2d4 2y ago
  I thought the implicit assumption in their comment was that OP/grandparent isn't American.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Oh. Makes sense.

light_hue_1 2y ago

This is the best that I've seen https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/03/opinion/election-focus-groups.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/03/opinion/election-focus-gr... Biden is wildly unpopular, Harris is his right hand, she didn't get put up by any competitive process, and she never promised change to a country that very much wants it. The nyt always considered her the worst possible option from day 1, aside from Biden. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Gasp0de 2y ago
Unfortunately, it seems the article can't be viewed without signing up.
- mportela 2y ago
  https://archive.is/DFbWQ https://archive.is/DFbWQ
hughesjj 2y ago
DNC really channeling that "don't get fired" energy
aucisson_masque 2y ago
That's actually interesting, thank you.

TrackerFF 2y ago

Time and time again, polls have showed that "economy and inflation" was the leading cause. After that immigration.

atoav 2y ago
Yeah, but you have to be somewhat deranged to trust a multiple bancrupt and proven grifter with that — especially since the economic record of his last administration hasn't been stellar at all. But if you are lucky he will allow you vote for the other side in 4 years again and then you will vote republicans after and back and forth we go.
seb1204 2y ago
In school back then I learned about the American melting pot of people from everywhere. Is this no longer the case?
- thebigspacefuck 2y ago
  Recently there’s been an influx of illegal immigrants from Venezuela including some associated with Tren de Aragua that have been highly publicized and politicized. While most people do want America to be a melting pot of people from everywhere, whether you want your borders so wide open to allow criminals and gangs to sneak in is another question, and also probably something we all agree on, but in this case one candidate has been in power and has appeared to have not solved the problems.

dyauspitr 2y ago

Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies. High inflation played a role too. It was pretty effectively curtailed but not fast enough to directly affect people’s lives before the election.

panick21_ 2y ago
In tons of the non-Trump races the anti-trans and anti-feminist ads have not worked well.
major505 2y ago
Is not only americans. Is most people, but they are afraid to tell and being labeled as biggots. Is a lot a things, economy for sure, but the demiocrafts passed 4 years calling half the country nazis and facists, and denying things that everyone could see like Biden health issues. This comes with a price.
- m2024 2y ago
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lelanthran 2y ago
> Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies. I doubt most people like those two things. The difference is, they get insulted, shamed and targeted for social ostracisation if they let on what they don't like. Which results in the election results that you see - just because you've successfully silenced someone from expressing their opinion, that doesn't mean that you changed their vote.
selfmodruntime 2y ago
> Honestly, Americans don’t like modern feminism and anything related to trans ideologies Americans (and people in general) do not care about social issues when they are hurting financially.
- dyauspitr 2y ago

clumsysmurf 2y ago

You might find some insight here: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/trump-voters-like-lying-deception-feature/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/trump-voters-li... They discuss a paper "The Authentic Appeal of the Lying Demagogue: Proclaiming the Deeper Truth About Political Illegitimacy.” Which asks the Q: "H]ow can a constituency of voters find a candidate ‘authentically appealing’ (i.e., view him positively as authentic) even though he is a ‘lying demagogue’ (someone who deliberately tells lies and appeals to non-normative private prejudices)?” one A is: "Trump’s boldly false proclamations—about himself, about his rivals and critics, about the world—are not a bug. They’re a feature. They demonstrate he is sticking it to the other side. To the elites, the media, the establishment, the government, academia, Hollywood, the libs, the woke crowd, the minorities, the…whoever it is his supporters resent, despise, or disregard."

FeepingCreature 2y ago
That's also why in 2016, a year's worth of "Trump is terrible" articles only helped him - because the actual received message was "we, the people you despise, really would hate if Trump was elected". It's a sign of authenticity. Trump couldn't betray them, because he very evidently had nowhere else to go.
- djtango 2y ago
  Aka polarisation. When Trump first won I conceptualised it as him arbitraging humanity/democracy's lack of preparedness for social media and the internet upending established flows of information. The solution at its heart is to reduce conflict and bridge the gap. I have enjoyed Zachary Elwoods most recent podcast episode showing how Trump is misquoted by traditional media outlets which has the negative effect of furthering the perception of bias.

melodyogonna 2y ago

If you use Twitter you would know. People hate the lackadaisical attitude to illegal immigration, the inflation in the economy, and the idealogy-centered government (yes, this has been a popular sore point).

x3ro 2y ago
I find it hilarious when people say democrats are "idealogy-centered government" [sic], but Trump isn't. What do those words mean to you? Are you saying that Trump has no ideology?..
- chaos_emergent 2y ago
  As someone who voted for Harris, I’d say trump is less ideologically driven than democratic candidates. He’s insane and erratic, which don’t follow ideology.
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    Oh, he definitely has an ideology if you've ever read about project 2025
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      But he doesn't openly argue for that. And that's all politics is. Optics.
      - amarcheschi 2y ago
        Then Idk, he openly says that government agencies should have less power (epa, fda...). I mean, he doesn't sponsor this view, but he openly said he'll make musk give less and less agency to gov. Companies that aren't deemed worth of it, whatever it means
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

guerrilla 2y ago

[flagged]

fastasucan 2y ago
This is my conclusion as well. In many other western countries Donald Trump is a badly written movie charagter. In the US he is their best option for a president. "What about those that didnt vote for him" people may ask, but the fact that the democrats isnt able to provide an alternative better than Trump, and haven't been able to provide better politics than Trump says everything. 50% of the voting mass look at Trump and say "that is my president!", and millions cant even be bothered to show up to vote for someone else. This is America.
zmgsabst 2y ago
Trying to apply that stereotype to Elon Musk and Tulsi Gabbard seems awkward — both of whom endorsed Trump.
- m2024 2y ago
  [flagged]
- Tainnor 2y ago
  I honestly think that Elon Musk is just on a personal vendetta against anyone who bruised his ego. He can't stand that he was called out for his Thai diver "pedophile" comment or that his trans daughter openly disavows him. He specifically blames the "woke mindset" for the latter. So for him, it's probably just a "stick it to the libs" kind of thing.
  - melodyogonna 2y ago
    I don't think it was any of those, Elon and his mother have regularly referenced Tesla being snubbed at an EV Summit, and GM being praised as leading the EV transition in a quarter they (GM) delivered 42 electric cars to Tesla's 300,000. It is still a matter of bruised ego though, I think Elon Musk takes things like this very seriously.

willvarfar 2y ago

My take is that the democrats are being blamed for the ever higher cost of living. There are people who vote because they want the insular America and to bring jobs back from China/Mexico/etc, those who vote to burn down 'the establishment' because they feel no hope, and those who just hope that any change means cost of living drops.

seb1204 2y ago
Maybe I would like this too but there are still more steps to go to then believe that a proven liar will give it to them.

fastasucan 2y ago

After seeing this guy become elected for the second time I have come to the opposite conclusion. This is what America wants, and this is what America is. The rest of the world should acknowledge this and act accordingly, and the people of the US, especially the Democrats, should as well. Pretending like "this isn't us", "this isnt real america" is just keeping them from doing any real introspection.

ravroid 2y ago
Important to note that it's not what all of us Americans want, it's just what a little over half of the voting population voted for.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Half the voting population who chose to vote voted for.
- dartharva 2y ago
  "A little over half of the voting population" is literally all that matters here! The levels of cope here are astounding.
  - justin66 2y ago
    > all that matters! Some perspective is called for.
  - josephg 2y ago
    It’s all that matters in the presidential race. But barely over half of the population wanted him as president. The other side doesn’t disappear just because they lost an election.
    - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
      Talk about really problems with 'democracy' where 51% decides decides to thrust their views on the rest 49% . The concept is fundamentally flawed.

runarberg 2y ago

Your refusal to believe that is apt. People are not nearly as dumb as this narrative puts them out to be. This mindset is at best elitism, and ignores human agency. In reality every Trump voter has their own reason to behave this way. And their behavior is perfectly rational according to their own beliefs. My personal theory is that we have been grossly underestimating the potency of misinformation and disinformation propaganda on social media. Especially those which weaponizes peoples actual grievances with authority, and directs them in this way. Anybody can be a victim of misinformation (we see this in action with people that fall victims to scam), the misinformation you personally don’t fall victim to was probably not directed at you (see e.g. the Nigerian Prince filter for wire fraud scams). I think that even though humans are smart, and we have our own agency, there are also number of ways which our intelligence can be exploited. This is the case for scams, but also for misinformation propaganda. I think the real lesson here is in the failures of our democratic institutions to protect us from this exploitation.

lazyeye 2y ago
You start off by saying these people arent stupid, then go on to suggest they are easily manipulated by (what you think is) misinformation. Just not smart, like you I guess? Honestly, I think the kind of people you are sneering at are actually smarter than you as they would never make the kind of stupid, ignorant comment you've made here.
- runarberg 2y ago
  Being susceptible to propaganda (or a scam for that matter) isn’t stupidity. We are all susceptible to it. It just varies which propaganda and to what degree. I never called Trump voters stupid. I think there may be a misunderstanding here because traditional discourse has people believe that only stupid people fall for misinformation propaganda (or a scam). I was explicitly rejecting that.
  - lazyeye 2y ago
    Is it possible that you are the one that has been manipulated by misinformation? Is it possible that people can disagree with you without "misinformation" being involved?

vdqtp3 2y ago

You have two options. If you listen to the American left and most media outlets, it's because Trump voters hate women, gays, foreigners, blacks, trans people, and progress - and to be fair, some do. If you listen to the people actually voting for Trump, it's because they fundamentally disagree with the basis for Harris' policies (and Clinton's before her) or the outcomes thereof.

tmountain 2y ago
Many have a very shallow understanding of policy and have also had their perspectives heavily influenced by propaganda from Fox News, etc. Ask the average Trump supporter how tarrifs work for a good example of what I’m describing.
- dartharva 2y ago
  Are you implying that the average Harris supporter will fare better against such questions?
  - hughesjj 2y ago
    I think they're rebutting that an actual understanding of policy enters the equation at all
    - tmountain 2y ago
      Correct, most voters are making decisions based on emotions, and those emotions are heavily influenced by their information sources.
- bagels 2y ago
  The few policies that were campaigned on are going to be harmful and counterproductive. I'm inclined to agree with the propaganda angle.
atoav 2y ago
Not from the US, but I really wonder: Do you guys got not feel shame if a person with that character and that track record runs your country? I mean sure: depending on your media diet you might find all his flaws acceptable, but ask yourself if Obama (or any other candidate) displayed the very same flaws if that would cause you outrage. If yes, you might need some introspection.

benjaminwootton 2y ago

Everyone is throwing ideas, excuses and explanations into the mix, but maybe people just want what he’s proposing - strict border control, low regulation, small government, low taxes, free speech etc. Im not American and barely engaged with politics at all but all of that sounds like a pretty good idea to me without looking at any stats or trying to find out why my fellow citizens were confused into making the wrong choice.

anon22981 2y ago
It isn’t about why his promises appeal to some people. The question is why people buy the ”free ice cream for all every day if I’m elected class president!” from a pedophile-rapist criminal. And instead of class presidency it’s real presidency. I wouldn’t trust literally anything in this guys hands’ and even less a country.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Except they're lies or false promises; low regulation is only for companies, allowing them to infringe on workers' rights, increase poverty, etc, which goes towards oligarchy. Small government means more power to less people, which goes towards autocracy. Low taxes means less money to social programs, which means people will literally die from being unable to afford health care, which is eugenics. Free speech for me but not for thee, it's Musk's flavour of free speech where words like "cis" are banned. But sure, on the surface they sound good I suppose.

mrweasel 2y ago

A friend of mine just sent me an article from a Danish newspaper where they cover the reasons as to why people would want to vote for someone like Trump. They interview Arlie Russell Hochschild who has written two books on the topic: "Strangers in Their Own Land" and "Stolen Pride". One explanation from Hochschild is that you have a group of disenfranchised votes, who see "everyone else" get to "jump the line" for help. Not only do they get to jump the line, they see the president (Obama back then) help these other people (immigrants, women, people of color, LGBTQ, an so on) move ahead of the line, while they are left behind to fend for themselves. I haven't read the books yet, but I definitely plan to. From the article it certainly sound like it would help me understand why some Americans vote the way they do.

zmgsabst 2y ago
Bigotry is unpopular with Americans. Even if you claim it’s noble bigotry because you’re discriminating against people with evil ancestors or who happen to share a sex with bad people.
rendall 2y ago
> "A friend of mine just sent me an article from a Danish newspaper where they cover the reasons as to why people would want to vote for someone like Trump...." And this illustrates the problem. Hochschild is a professor emeritus of sociology at Berkeley. Why in heaven's name would you think that good insights will be garnered by reading a Danish article about a book written by a Blue professor about another group of Red people... when you can go on x dot com and read for yourself why people voted as they did? I can say for certain - from reading and listening to what Trump voters have said themselves - that Trump voters are absolutely done with this kind of framing.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  If your own political conviction influence your works as a professor, then you're perhaps not that great a professor, but if you do good work, then maybe you have the tools to write about that work and target it to a group of like minded people, communicating in a why that they/I better understand. Personally I'm not interested in going on Twitter, or Facebook, because those are going to be the most extreme people, at both ends. I'm also no prepared to do the filtering required to identify trolls or propaganda. My interest is in the vast majority of people who don't really have a voice online. I can't go out and talk to them, I'm on the other side of the planet. I'd still like to know why they vote the way they do, because I'm directly affected by how rural America votes. I wish I weren't, so I guess that's one opinion I share with Trump.

ookblah 2y ago

I mean, I grew up in a conservative state and a small/medium sized city that has always been red. Not every one is a "redneck retarded bigot". I don't think most of them aren't as openly racist as made out to be. Outside of politics you wouldn't even think anything was too out of the ordinary. That said, I'm not sure stuff like "He's annointed by God", "He tells it like it is/Isn't afraid to speak his mind", "Liberals are evil/devil/<insert literally any reason to hate them> " is stuff you want to hear, but it does represent a somewhat overall sentiment (generalized of course). More centered around ignorance and perceived old "conservative values". I find very few people actually able to articulate their points.

lazyeye 2y ago

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throwaway65432 2y ago

"The thing that baffles me is that good and serious people have seen versions of what happened tonight in the US for eight years and are still surprised that people don’t see the world as they do. 1) Voters think “the economy” is “can I afford to live” NOT “we are doing better nationally than others”. Inflation is politically more important than GDP 2) Immigration matters, both the sense of control/uncontrolled and the raw numbers, particularly when money is tight. See 1 3) Don’t take voters for fools: in this case don’t insist a clearly gaga leader is up to the job 4) Don’t try to fight a charismatic opponent with someone who can’t answer basic questions about why they want to be in charge. The ability to communicate is not an optional extra for politicians, it is a core part of the job description 5) Go woke, go politically broke 6) What the metro elites regard as an illogical vote is not necessarily illogical for people who are struggling and angry - see 1,2,3,4,5 Personally I think democracy matters very much and some/much of what Trump says is appalling but until his opponents learn the lessons above, voters will keep voting for someone who manages to encapsulate what they feel" https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1854055061925560448 https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1854055061925560448

selfmodruntime 2y ago
> Voters think “the economy” is “can I afford to live” NOT “we are doing better nationally than others”. They think correct, in the only sense that matters.

lelanthran 2y ago

> I refuse to believe the narrative that Americans are just a bunch of redneck retarded bigots. They aren't, really. That's just what a vocal minority calls them, said minority actually deluding themselves into thinking that they are the majority.

throw2343223434 2y ago

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sensanaty 2y ago

You ever stop to think that maybe calling ~50% of the population of your country "a bunch of redneck retarded bigots" could perhaps have some part in it? The media pushing that narrative everywhere certainly doesn't help either. I'm not a Yank nor do I vote or care to ever vote, but if I were and all I ever saw was every mainstream source of news and media, including sites like Reddit and apparently even HN, calling me a retard (which funnily enough is a pretty bigoted insult coming from the supposed moral & good side) and a bigot non-stop I'd probably say "fuck it" and vote for the guy too. From where I'm sitting across the pond, the Republicans want stricter border control, smaller government, lower taxes, free speech (which itself is a loaded term that means different things depending on who's saying/hearing it), which is basically what the populist parties across the EU are promising as well.

baq 2y ago
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- zpeti 2y ago
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  - baq 2y ago
    Every far left extremist (which have no clue what communism even means) has an analogous far right extremist (who also have no clue what it actually means), both are idiots and shouldn't be let anywhere near government. Admittedly the US had a choice between someone unfit for office and a lawfully convicted felon, I don't envy this situation.
    - Spivak 2y ago
      What? Kamala would have done great, where is this coming from? Trump for better or worse is about to get Weekend at Bernie'd by his cabinet just like Biden did.
  - schwartzworld 2y ago

briandear 2y ago

I can give you my anecdote: I worked for Best Buy. They fired us and hired an Indian offshore team. They had H1B representatives in the U.S. that I had to spend three months training to do my job. H1B is supposed to be to fill critical shortages. There wasn’t a critical shortage because I existed and my entire team existed. Best Buy’s CEO preaches “inclusivity” and “the value of each employee” — while simultaneously firing Americans (and permanent residents) to lower costs — while making the vast majority of their profit selling products to Americans. The other reason I voted Trump was the Covid lockdowns and the attempted vaccine mandates. Blue states such as California had schools closed for over a year, while red states such as Texas and Florida quickly reopened. The type of government that would arrest a person surfing off of Santa Cruz is a government that has lost their mind. And anyone Dr Sarah Cody of Santa Clara county would support, I’m going to support the opposite. On a more subjective level — anyone that the establishment tries so hard to oppose-arrest-bankrupt-kill is worthy of my vote. When Dick Cheney endorsed Harris, the decision got really easy to support Trump. Also, see the Abraham Accords for why many support Trump on a foreign policy level. I don’t care about engaging in a debate and plenty will downvote simply because I’m not in their tribe — but while you asked for a scientific study, there isn’t one yet, but there are tens of millions of anecdotes like mine which should give you a good start. Not that it matters — my wife is an immigrant from Mexico and her entire family in the U.S. (who are all first generation citizens) — all voted Trump as well. Some make the mistake of assuming “immigrants” are all “undocumented.” There’s a huge difference in being anti-immigrant and anti-illegal-immigrant. The left-wing media fails to make the distinction. Also have a look at the so-called “Black” vote — they have a lot more nuance than the media would have you believe.

notadoomer236 2y ago
This is a great example, and you’re downvoted because liberals don’t like to hear the criticisms of their tribe. They ask why people would vote for Trump, you explain your anecdote, and they downvote you. Classic blue tribe behavior.
selfmodruntime 2y ago
I agree fully with your points. Covid restrictions were insane and will change my voting habits forever. What happened to "personal responsibility" in that time??

senda 2y ago

It's almost definitely the Bidens administration perceived failings to deal with inflation.

andrewinardeer 2y ago
Also add illegal immigration. People are seriously pissed off about it. My working theory is that this all stems from fear of foreigners/ xenophobia.
- goatlover 2y ago
  What if I told you that a majority of legal immigrants and minorities don't like illegal immigration?
  - andrewinardeer 2y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised. Should I be?

keiferski 2y ago

Basically it's this: - The economy is what ultimately matters to many people, and the impression is that the economy has been bad for the last 4 years under Biden but was better under Trump. The actual data is more unclear and confusing, but the average person has this impression. - Harris wasn't likable/charismatic enough to many people, and was largely supported for her policies first and her personality second. Trump, on the other hand, went on a lot of longform podcasts, worked at McDonalds for a few hours, and generally seems more "human" to the average person. - A general sense of rage/dislike/push-back at "elites" in Washington DC, the coasts, the mainstream media organizations, etc. If you google "trust in government" or "trust in media", they will elaborate on this issue. Trump, although a billionaire from NYC, is generally disliked there and is perceived as being an outsider and rebel vs. the elite group mentioned. - Some protectionist policies Trump claims to support will benefit people in key battleground states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc Ultimately it comes down to two things, IMO: personal charisma and the economy. Everything else is only relevant in close elections.

notadoomer236 2y ago
Harris wasn’t just unlikeable. She came across as downright incompetent, a mediocrity elevated to the highest positions by the exact sort of identify focused criteria voters don’t want.
jemmyw 2y ago
> Harris wasn't likable/charismatic enough to many people, and was largely supported for her policies first and her personality second. Trump, on the other hand, went on a lot of longform podcasts, worked at McDonalds for a few hours, and generally seems more "human" to the average person. I would argue it was the other way round. They both went on podcasts etc and I'm debate and in rallies Trump was verging on incoherent and boring his own supporters. But on policy he was far stronger. I'm not American and I'm left wing but the trade and tax policies he's proposing do speak to traditional left wing, trade union workers: put up barriers to lower cost countries undercutting American workers. I don't know what Harris vision is, it seems she has trouble articulating it clearly.
- 2y ago

zmgsabst 2y ago

This interview between Elon Musk and Joe Rogan explains — though I’m not sure the timestamp. Joe Rogan found it convincing enough to endorse Trump afterwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZl_5xHoBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZl_5xHoBw You could also watch the episode interviewing Trump. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY Or his VP, Vance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRyyTAs1XY8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRyyTAs1XY8 Presumably the majority are people who agree with the message conveyed during such interviews.

mbg721 2y ago

Jason Pargin (author of John Dies at the End et al.) is pretty insightful on the perspective of Americans in dying small towns.

loehnsberg 2y ago

What‘s most striking is that a sober dialogue on opposing views/ideas has been replaced by partisanship and hatred of the othet side, whatever the subject. What do we need to do to get out of this mess?

account42 2y ago
> What do we need to do to get out of this mess? Ban short form media.

daniel_iversen 2y ago

I don't think there's a great mystery - what could possibly be the secret for why people voted for Trump you say? Probably the same reason why people vote for any other political candidate, right? Surely the simplest explanation is the most likely; they preferred him to the other candidate in some combination of what he brings vs. the other candidate? Some people are lifelong affiliates of a political party, sure, and that's less interesting and fruitful TBH, but for the "undecided" or "open-minded" voters I don't see how it's more complex Than they decided it based on the information at hand. Question is whether they were misinformed and how much the positive messages ("This is what we'll do") draws vs. "The other person will end the world" rhetoric. Thoughts?

ctchocula 2y ago

You have to understand American politics behind the rise of Trump. Since the 1980s and Reagan, Democrats had broken with their New Deal era coalition composed of union workers. Instead, Democrats have aligned with middle class knowledge workers, and pushed for neoliberal policy that have offshored many manufacturing jobs. This was seen as a betrayal to the working class. That has left many working class whites with high school degrees with low-paying service jobs, that gave them a lower standard of living compared to the union jobs their parents worked. This continued from Clinton to the Obama era. While Obamacare was a step in the right direction, it was seen as too little too late. It also had unintended consequences. For example, some of my part-time service job colleagues reported that pre-Obamacare, the employer could have them work 40 hours a week, because they weren't forced to provide them health insurance that met some minimum standard. However post-Obamacare, their hours were limited at 29 hours, which made it much harder to make a living. By 2016, there was an opioid addiction crisis composing largely of working whites with only a high school degree, and the economy was still suffering from the slower-than-possible recovery from the Great Recession. (Economists say it would've been faster with more stimulus, but Obama was cowed by his neoliberal econ advisors). Due to gridlock in the political system, immigration system reform was impossible, and Presidents could only use Executive Orders to try to mitigate (but not solve) the problem of an increasing number of illegal immigrants from the Southern border. All the pieces were in place: - Scapegoat: illegal immigrants - Weak economy: check - Disgruntled populace: check Feeling abandoned by both parties, the electorate went with an anti-establishment strongman demagogue who preyed on their hopes and fears. It's almost identical to the political environment that gave rise to Hitler and Mussolini. The saving grace for the US during Trump's first term has been her strong democratic institutions. Pray they hold up during his second and hopefully final term.

hughesjj 2y ago
Biden has been the most pro union president since the new deal though Totally agreed that neoliberalism is a cancer though
selfmodruntime 2y ago
The american academic elite is a tiny minority who think they know best. They received a reality check today.

mellosouls 2y ago

'm trying to look beyond the propaganda, any idea if there has been scientific studies or anything remotely credible ? I'm afraid this is the problem - your implication is that Trump voters need explaining using scientific analysis as some sort of aberration. One day, there will hopefully be an analysis - but it will be of how among huge parts of the media and establishment this ideological view became the null hypothesis to the extent that people - in good faith - thought they were looking beyond the propoganda while asking questions like yours.

sakopov 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago

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thegabriele 2y ago

Becauase Trump is the champion of the name-calling politics and here we are in your comment, still playing his game.

vixen99 2y ago

Why not ask some of the distinguished conservative academics who support the likely (as I write) next President? By the way, how about turning the question round? I hope you do not think that's unthinkable.

selfmodruntime 2y ago

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beltsazar 2y ago

You're asking as if the other candidate is a no-brainer choice. If the other candidate were Kennedy, then sure—but they were not. In this case, many would be undecided and would vote not the best candidate, but the least bad one.

gregwebs 2y ago

Get out of your bubble and listen to people. Hacker News is part of your bubble. The majority of people have picked a side long ago and are sticking to it. You want to talk to independents or people that have changed sides recently. The interesting thing for me was seeing the blowback from the woke movement. People I know that were raised Democrats and supported gay rights could no longer identify with the party supporting a movement that appeared to be telling them that they are racist (and BTW be careful or you might get cancelled) and that it would be great if their kids changed genders. This led them away from legacy media and towards opposite points of view. I am not claiming this was the decisive reason- just pointing out something that I don’t see talked about much. Listen to people and you will find other reasons.

theshrike79 2y ago

My theory is that a good portion of people didn't vote for "Trump", they voted for their party. That's the end of their thought process. Party affiliation is a huge part of people's culture and personality in the US, "We are a Republican family" is something people outside of the US wouldn't say out loud. They have always voted Republican and will always vote Republican even if it's against their interests.

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csomar 2y ago

> Tried to Google it but all I find is a bunch of American news website like CNN and website like https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-t https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-t... > I'm trying to look beyond the propaganda, any idea if there has been scientific studies or anything remotely credible ? Exactly, they "propaganded" so hard that they created a narrative that they are the definitive winners. So you bought into their propaganda and now you are surprised. The reality is that the democrats are not that good and the people voted.

dools 2y ago

The only reason people vote for conservatives is because they're selfish or ignorant. This is obvious because there are 2 things in the economy: labour and capital. It is no coindence then that democracies invariably develop 2 parties. One of those parties ostensibly represents the intrests of labour. As such the other must represent the interests of capital. But how could a party that benefits so few, ever win a majority? Well, a combination of selfish people (those who benefit directly from the policies) and ignorant people (those who have been convinced by any number of falsehoods to vote against their own economic interests).

deleted 2y ago
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throwaway345724 2y ago

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zulban 2y ago

Watch some long form right leaning podcasts.

ur-whale 2y ago

> Is there some statistical analysis on the reason people vote trump ? You could try to ask HN'ers who voted Trump why they did ... statistically speaking, folks on HN do not exactly strike me as fitting the "bunch of redneck retarded bigots" profile. Oh but wait, that would only be possible if admitting on HN that you supported Trump was not guaranteed to have the following effect: - starting flamewars, which might get you banned - being ostracized and attacked And turns out HN is IMO a reflection of what happens in US society at large: in the non-"bunch of redneck retarded bigots" social circles, telling people that you support Trump is career/social suicide. Except that more than half of the country supports him, so if you pick 100 people, even in the non-"bunch of redneck retarded bigots" circles, chances are, you know ... There is something deeply dysfunctional about a society where you have to hide your democratic choice for fear of being socially destroyed.