5 ms·

don't take the voters as stupid, don't impose candidates who can't 1 win a 1 horse race. pretty much the democratic party has to introspect and stop blaming vo

by dzonga 2y ago

don't take the voters as stupid, don't impose candidates who can't 1 win a 1 horse race. pretty much the democratic party has to introspect and stop blaming voters for their failed campaign.

walterbell 2y ago
Bill Ackman, https://x.com/billackman/status/1854019674385547454 https://x.com/billackman/status/1854019674385547454 > The Democratic Party.. lied to the American people about the cognitive health and fitness of the president. It prevented, threatened, litigated and otherwise eliminated the ability of other [Democratic] candidates for the primary to compete, to get on ballots, and to even participate in a debate.
- formerly_proven 2y ago
  Isn't that sentence literally true for the Republican party as well? So how would it be a differentiating factor?
  - walterbell 2y ago
    There was a 2024 Republican Presidential Primary, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Republican_Party_presiden...
    - stouset 2y ago
      And it turns out the voters don’t seem to actually care about the cognitive health of the President, nor do they seem to care about being lied to about it.
      - walterbell 2y ago
        Joe Rogan's three-hour interview of one candidate got 40M+ views.
        dialup_sounds 2y ago
        Soon: "Terrence Howard nominated to head Department of Education"
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        The Republican Party didn't hide the President of the United States from the public because he was no longer able to speak publicly.
        vkou 2y ago
        The gibberish that routinely comes out of their candidate barely qualifies as speech. The reality is, nobody who was wringing their hands about Biden's cognitive abilities, or his son's legal problems actually cared about either issue. If they did, they wouldn't have voted for an mentally declining criminal today.
        ks2048 2y ago
        Yes, they do hide Trump's health reports from the public - or rather he never releases any information like other presidents do. Hell, he GOT SHOT and never gave any details of what happened. I agree that Democrats denying Biden's cognitive decline was a disaster.
    - baybal2 2y ago
      [dead]
aydyn 2y ago
Also don't blatantly exaggerate and lie in journalism: https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/politics/donald-trump-liz-cheney-war-hawk-battle/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/politics/donald-trump-liz-che...
mariusor 2y ago
I think the only lesson that Democrats can learn from the past three elections is that women have no chance at presidency. If anything, as an outsider, the campaign Harris led, seemed to reach vastly more people than Biden's.
- vundercind 2y ago
  I am 100% convinced a Republican woman could win. I was in touch with a lot of deep-red middle-of-the-country Republican voters and candidates for state and federal offices when Palin was the VP pick. Shooting-stuff-in-political-ads sorts. It was practically all they talked about. They liked her a ton better than McCain. I think they’d have gladly voted for her at the top of the ticket (granted, they lost that one, but I think an R woman could absolutely be elected President, probably more easily than a Democratic one).
- mangoman 2y ago
  That would be missing the forest for the trees in my view. I could see it having an impact, but when 60% of people say that the country is headed in the wrong direction, putting up a candidate who was in power the last four years just isn’t going to work. Biden would not have won a primary, and neither would she have
Maken 2y ago
As a foreigner, the Democratic party just lives of to crying wolf on the Republican party without offering any meaningful difference. And people have gotten tired of it, judging by the fact that Trump is not getting more voters than in 2020, but they are getting considerably less. Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic, but rather than "people want Trump" I read all this debacle as "people want something different from the Democrats".
- theshrike79 2y ago
  Nah, the problem is that Republicans have openly played a dirty game for almost a decade with ZERO repercussions. They flaunt the laws and conventions of politics and nothing happens. Democrats still play by the rules for some reason and don't call out the shit done by the other party with simple enough terms.
  - gmueckl 2y ago
    This. One side sticks to the rules and watches silently while the other side slowly undermines them. At the same time, the Republicans have perfected the twin strategies of sowing distrust in neutral media reorting and playing the victim card consistently to everything, even their own attacks.
    - theshrike79 2y ago
      And Donald's first term taught them that when you lie ALL THE TIME, nobody can fact-check you effectively. Just stick to the script and talking points, no matter what the question. By the time the first ad-libbed bold faced lie is checked and sourced, he has told 42 more. It's not a game you can win by playing by the rules.
skhunted 2y ago
[flagged]
- smallstepforman 2y ago
  It clearly shows how bad the D candidate/policy is, such that people prefered the R candidate with all the flaws you listed. The eye opener should be why people rejected the D candidates.
  - skhunted 2y ago
    It’s a white nationalist backlash. They cared not about the messenger; only the message. It’s also the product of Russian disinformation. Russia has perfected the art of sowing division and faux outrage. We’ve done it to other countries so we deserve it in some sense. We’ll see a rise of toxic masculinity. Women exercising sexual autonomy and gaining power is not something snowflake men can handle. Such is my belief. I could be entirely wrong.
    - ekianjo 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - skhunted 2y ago
        Russia and China have been waging a cyber war against the U.S. for a long time now. Russian accounts on social media have been effective at sowing dissent, chaos, conspiracy theories, and false information. Tim Pool and others on Russia’s payroll is clear evidence of this. The lesson of the day is that the U.S. is far more conservative than I thought. Trump is the President we deserve and we deserve what comes next. White rural voters will not be helped by him and I will not shed any tears at their plight.
        ekianjo 2y ago
        [flagged]
refurb 2y ago
Agree 100%. The "am I wrong? no, it's the voters who are wrong!" is a sure sign the next campaign will flop as well. A large percentage of Americans aren't interested in what the Democratic Party is selling. The party can either stick to their policies and live with these kinds of showing, or take some time to really think about what the American voter is looking for.
- skhunted 2y ago
  I don’t believe you are correct. People who vote for a man as debased, self centered, sexually depraved, and criminally inclined as Trump are “wrong”. White men latched onto a horrible person as their savior. If that’s what they want then they deserve what comes. But the people who don’t want that should stick to their principles. What does it say about Trump that so many of his lawyers and advisors ended up in jail and that so few former cabinet members endorsed him? What does it say about his supporters who cared not that he raped children with his pal Epstein? Remember when Cruz and Lindsey Graham spoke honestly about Trump just before November 2016? Recall what they said then to what they say now. It’s a cult.
  - refurb 2y ago
    > People who vote for a man as debased, self centered, sexually depraved, and criminally inclined as Trump are “wrong”. Maybe you're too young to remember Bill Clinton? He was accused of sexual harassment by a number of women (including a rape). His relationship with Lewinsky (22 years old), is highly exploitive in terms of the power he held over her career. While he might have supported women's right politically, he was certainly exploitive in his personal life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_an... There were also a number of "questionable business dealings" in his past. Arkansas land deals, Whitewater, almost impeached by Congress for lying. But I'm sure you'll say "oh, those were just trumped up charges by the Republicans". Ok, then don't blame Trump voters when they think "oh, those were just trumped up charges by the Democrats". So while people got worked up, he got re-elected handily. It's funny to me when people entirely overlooked Clinton's life because they liked him as a President and they liked his policies. You'd think the Democrats would know this.

by dzonga 2y ago

don't take the voters as stupid, don't impose candidates who can't 1 win a 1 horse race. pretty much the democratic party has to introspect and stop blaming voters for their failed campaign.

walterbell 2y ago

Bill Ackman, https://x.com/billackman/status/1854019674385547454 https://x.com/billackman/status/1854019674385547454 > The Democratic Party.. lied to the American people about the cognitive health and fitness of the president. It prevented, threatened, litigated and otherwise eliminated the ability of other [Democratic] candidates for the primary to compete, to get on ballots, and to even participate in a debate.

formerly_proven 2y ago
Isn't that sentence literally true for the Republican party as well? So how would it be a differentiating factor?
- walterbell 2y ago
  There was a 2024 Republican Presidential Primary, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Republican_Party_presiden...
  - stouset 2y ago
    And it turns out the voters don’t seem to actually care about the cognitive health of the President, nor do they seem to care about being lied to about it.
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Joe Rogan's three-hour interview of one candidate got 40M+ views.
      - dialup_sounds 2y ago
        Soon: "Terrence Howard nominated to head Department of Education"
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      The Republican Party didn't hide the President of the United States from the public because he was no longer able to speak publicly.
      - vkou 2y ago
        The gibberish that routinely comes out of their candidate barely qualifies as speech. The reality is, nobody who was wringing their hands about Biden's cognitive abilities, or his son's legal problems actually cared about either issue. If they did, they wouldn't have voted for an mentally declining criminal today.
      - ks2048 2y ago
        Yes, they do hide Trump's health reports from the public - or rather he never releases any information like other presidents do. Hell, he GOT SHOT and never gave any details of what happened. I agree that Democrats denying Biden's cognitive decline was a disaster.
  - baybal2 2y ago
    [dead]

aydyn 2y ago

Also don't blatantly exaggerate and lie in journalism: https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/politics/donald-trump-liz-cheney-war-hawk-battle/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/politics/donald-trump-liz-che...

mariusor 2y ago

I think the only lesson that Democrats can learn from the past three elections is that women have no chance at presidency. If anything, as an outsider, the campaign Harris led, seemed to reach vastly more people than Biden's.

vundercind 2y ago
I am 100% convinced a Republican woman could win. I was in touch with a lot of deep-red middle-of-the-country Republican voters and candidates for state and federal offices when Palin was the VP pick. Shooting-stuff-in-political-ads sorts. It was practically all they talked about. They liked her a ton better than McCain. I think they’d have gladly voted for her at the top of the ticket (granted, they lost that one, but I think an R woman could absolutely be elected President, probably more easily than a Democratic one).
mangoman 2y ago
That would be missing the forest for the trees in my view. I could see it having an impact, but when 60% of people say that the country is headed in the wrong direction, putting up a candidate who was in power the last four years just isn’t going to work. Biden would not have won a primary, and neither would she have

Maken 2y ago

As a foreigner, the Democratic party just lives of to crying wolf on the Republican party without offering any meaningful difference. And people have gotten tired of it, judging by the fact that Trump is not getting more voters than in 2020, but they are getting considerably less. Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic, but rather than "people want Trump" I read all this debacle as "people want something different from the Democrats".

theshrike79 2y ago
Nah, the problem is that Republicans have openly played a dirty game for almost a decade with ZERO repercussions. They flaunt the laws and conventions of politics and nothing happens. Democrats still play by the rules for some reason and don't call out the shit done by the other party with simple enough terms.
- gmueckl 2y ago
  This. One side sticks to the rules and watches silently while the other side slowly undermines them. At the same time, the Republicans have perfected the twin strategies of sowing distrust in neutral media reorting and playing the victim card consistently to everything, even their own attacks.
  - theshrike79 2y ago
    And Donald's first term taught them that when you lie ALL THE TIME, nobody can fact-check you effectively. Just stick to the script and talking points, no matter what the question. By the time the first ad-libbed bold faced lie is checked and sourced, he has told 42 more. It's not a game you can win by playing by the rules.

skhunted 2y ago

[flagged]

smallstepforman 2y ago
It clearly shows how bad the D candidate/policy is, such that people prefered the R candidate with all the flaws you listed. The eye opener should be why people rejected the D candidates.
- skhunted 2y ago
  It’s a white nationalist backlash. They cared not about the messenger; only the message. It’s also the product of Russian disinformation. Russia has perfected the art of sowing division and faux outrage. We’ve done it to other countries so we deserve it in some sense. We’ll see a rise of toxic masculinity. Women exercising sexual autonomy and gaining power is not something snowflake men can handle. Such is my belief. I could be entirely wrong.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - skhunted 2y ago
      Russia and China have been waging a cyber war against the U.S. for a long time now. Russian accounts on social media have been effective at sowing dissent, chaos, conspiracy theories, and false information. Tim Pool and others on Russia’s payroll is clear evidence of this. The lesson of the day is that the U.S. is far more conservative than I thought. Trump is the President we deserve and we deserve what comes next. White rural voters will not be helped by him and I will not shed any tears at their plight.
      - ekianjo 2y ago
        [flagged]

refurb 2y ago

Agree 100%. The "am I wrong? no, it's the voters who are wrong!" is a sure sign the next campaign will flop as well. A large percentage of Americans aren't interested in what the Democratic Party is selling. The party can either stick to their policies and live with these kinds of showing, or take some time to really think about what the American voter is looking for.

skhunted 2y ago
I don’t believe you are correct. People who vote for a man as debased, self centered, sexually depraved, and criminally inclined as Trump are “wrong”. White men latched onto a horrible person as their savior. If that’s what they want then they deserve what comes. But the people who don’t want that should stick to their principles. What does it say about Trump that so many of his lawyers and advisors ended up in jail and that so few former cabinet members endorsed him? What does it say about his supporters who cared not that he raped children with his pal Epstein? Remember when Cruz and Lindsey Graham spoke honestly about Trump just before November 2016? Recall what they said then to what they say now. It’s a cult.
- refurb 2y ago
  > People who vote for a man as debased, self centered, sexually depraved, and criminally inclined as Trump are “wrong”. Maybe you're too young to remember Bill Clinton? He was accused of sexual harassment by a number of women (including a rape). His relationship with Lewinsky (22 years old), is highly exploitive in terms of the power he held over her career. While he might have supported women's right politically, he was certainly exploitive in his personal life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_an... There were also a number of "questionable business dealings" in his past. Arkansas land deals, Whitewater, almost impeached by Congress for lying. But I'm sure you'll say "oh, those were just trumped up charges by the Republicans". Ok, then don't blame Trump voters when they think "oh, those were just trumped up charges by the Democrats". So while people got worked up, he got re-elected handily. It's funny to me when people entirely overlooked Clinton's life because they liked him as a President and they liked his policies. You'd think the Democrats would know this.