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the message is: we don't want immigrants, we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us). like it or not,

the message is: we don't want immigrants, we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us). like it or not, this is what people want.

galfarragem 2y ago
Rephrased: we, the average tax payers, want prosperity too.
- hcfman 2y ago
  Well, so long as prosperity doesn't mean cheaper TVs with Chinese parts in them. I guess they will have to buy American TVs from now on.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    I’ve seen more than a few comments and tips on HN about how to keep one’s TV from phoning China.
- fabioborellini 2y ago
  But you aren't getting any with this ticket. There is no political force in the US that would question the trickle-down fairytales, and your broken elections system won't allow one to emerge. So you vote for change, yet the economics policies stay as unequal as always. But in the process you supported a rapist and a criminal who calls execution of journalists, suppression of women, blatant racism and just death and destruction of non-privileged people everywhere.
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    if the genuinely unprivileged gain some consciousness of their condition because of Trump, there will be changed. You cannot claim it for them.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      So, accelerationism?
      - DiscourseFan 2y ago
        accelerationism would be launching yourself into the unknown and not committing to a particular political ideology except the continuous development of capitalism. This is simply working with the concrete situation: a Trump presidency, which clearly opens up more opportunities for radical action then a Harris presidency, since Trump will be too busy completely destroying the economy and the FBI, CIA, and NSA, the judiciary and the legal system more broadly, to be even capable of fighting back against resistance or even stopping the conditions for a popular foment. Or, maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But at least now we'll get to know.
- rob74 2y ago
  That's what's the most mind-boggling for me - since when are the Republicans the ones considered most likely to bring prosperity to the masses?
  - galfarragem 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      Can you give an example of such a policy? (Not to doubt it, I just don't know as I'm on the other side of the world.)
      - galfarragem 2y ago
        Illegal immigration disregard, feeding stupid wars, ignoring petty crime.
        LunaSea 2y ago
        Republicans started the war in Iraq and Afghanistan so that's not true. And Republicans are against increasing the federal minimum wage so that's also not true. Disinformation is what won this campaign.
        mango7283 2y ago
        Notably those wars were not started or escalated by Trump's republican party. While >Dick Cheney< got accepted by Dems now just because he is against Trump...
        LunaSea 2y ago
        I see that we're already moving goalposts. Trump has a responsibility in escalating the tension between Israel and Palestine following the move of the American embassy to Jerusalem. He also escalated bombings in Syria. His terrible Afghan deal also made it so that there was no time or guarantees to fly Americans and people that helped America to the US while also leaving a lot of American military gear to the Talibans. This also ridiculed the US on the international stage.
atoav 2y ago
And: we don't care about ethics or looks as long as it serves us.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
impulser_ 2y ago
It's not immigrants. It's illegal immigrants. It was very clear from the beginning that this is what will kill the democrats chances. When you have poor people that have lived in this country since birth not be able to get help from the government because the government services in their community are over ran due to the influx of people. Who do you think they are going to vote for? Why do you think the Republicans had an historic election with minority voters? All they had to do was actually do anything about the tens of millions of immigrants coming over the board, but they ignored it and Trump used it against them. The Democrat party is ran by a bunch of idiots. Hopefully this is a wake up call for them to get with the real world on issues. Calling someone Hitler when they clearly aren't is also not going to help people support you especially AFTER he was president before and they experienced a presidency under him lol.
- bagels 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - roenxi 2y ago
    > ...are poisoning the blood of this country Isn't that Nazi rhetoric? "Blood of the country" seems like exactly the sort of thing the Nazis would have been focused on. Are you going for irony?
    - bagels 2y ago
      Yes. They're poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. "All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning," Hitler wrote.
      - b112 2y ago
        Devil's advocate.. if Hilter once remarked that broccoli is good for you, would people throw that back at someone saying the same?
mrkeen 2y ago
> the message is: we don't want immigrants It wasn't the case last time with Melania. And it won't be the case this time with Musk.
caskstrength 2y ago
> we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us) It is not even that since what they basically propose is to dial down the war in Eastern Europe but get more involved in the war in Middle East and possibly soon in East Asia. That stance always seemed very confusing to me as a non-US person.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > That stance always seemed very confusing to me as a non-US person. Europeans seem to overestimate how close America is to Europe. If you live in the Western half of the United States, Asia is much closer than Eastern Europe, most US military deployments are in the Pacific, and most foreign trade the US has is with Asia. Both parties campaigned on leaving the Middle East, but it is difficult to disengage from the region without devolving power to a regional ally (similar to how the US historically let France take the reigns on African relations). Historically, that ally has been Israel and Turkiye, but relations between the US and them have fallen precipitously.
zmmmmm 2y ago
it's actually really interesting, Trump already modified his rhetoric. In the rallies in the last week and in his acceptance speech he has suddenly talked about how they want immigrants to come in legally - even went out of his way to talk about "geninuses" in the acceptance speech. Pretty clear here that people like Musk have been heavily exerting influence to shape his viewpoint towards favouring immigration that allows high skilled workers in.
ossobuco 2y ago
> we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us) More like stop trying so hard to bring us closer to a WWIII. The USA's current foreign policy is the main cause of all the turmoil we're seeing in eastern Europe and the Middle East. Anything that can change it should be welcomed by anyone with a desire to live.
- gmueckl 2y ago
  The game theoretic irony is that peace can often only be achieved by building up the military strength to deter potential attackers. There are a few places in the world where US involvement can lead tonkore stability. Faltering US support for the Ukraine will tempt Russia into more territorial expansion towards or even into NATO. China will probably ramp up aggression against Taiwan and against the Philippines. It is a minor miracle that no lethal shots have yet been fired in the persistent and aggressive military incursions into Philippines territorial waters. Several navy vessels have already been damaged this year. I believe that the best way to release tensions in the Middle East would be by improving relations with Iran - but Trump bombed the deal that would have enabled that. The relqtive economic stength of the US could have been a good motivatir. Now Iran is aligning itself with Russia.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    > The game theoretic irony is that peace can often only be achieved by building up the military strength to deter potential attackers. Nobody has attacked the USA since Pearl Harbor. Military strength has been used to impose hegemony over other parts of the world, not to protect the nation. > There are a few places in the world where US involvement can lead tonkore stability. How can you say that after the countless deaths, pain, and strife caused by the USA in the Middle East, Asia, and South America?
    - nullocator 2y ago
      > Nobody has attacked the USA since Pearl Harbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks Seems big to leave out especially since your next remark is about strife caused by the USA in the Middle East...

the message is: we don't want immigrants, we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us). like it or not, this is what people want.

galfarragem 2y ago

Rephrased: we, the average tax payers, want prosperity too.

hcfman 2y ago
Well, so long as prosperity doesn't mean cheaper TVs with Chinese parts in them. I guess they will have to buy American TVs from now on.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  I’ve seen more than a few comments and tips on HN about how to keep one’s TV from phoning China.
fabioborellini 2y ago
But you aren't getting any with this ticket. There is no political force in the US that would question the trickle-down fairytales, and your broken elections system won't allow one to emerge. So you vote for change, yet the economics policies stay as unequal as always. But in the process you supported a rapist and a criminal who calls execution of journalists, suppression of women, blatant racism and just death and destruction of non-privileged people everywhere.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  if the genuinely unprivileged gain some consciousness of their condition because of Trump, there will be changed. You cannot claim it for them.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    So, accelerationism?
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      accelerationism would be launching yourself into the unknown and not committing to a particular political ideology except the continuous development of capitalism. This is simply working with the concrete situation: a Trump presidency, which clearly opens up more opportunities for radical action then a Harris presidency, since Trump will be too busy completely destroying the economy and the FBI, CIA, and NSA, the judiciary and the legal system more broadly, to be even capable of fighting back against resistance or even stopping the conditions for a popular foment. Or, maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But at least now we'll get to know.
rob74 2y ago
That's what's the most mind-boggling for me - since when are the Republicans the ones considered most likely to bring prosperity to the masses?
- galfarragem 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    Can you give an example of such a policy? (Not to doubt it, I just don't know as I'm on the other side of the world.)
    - galfarragem 2y ago
      Illegal immigration disregard, feeding stupid wars, ignoring petty crime.
      - LunaSea 2y ago
        Republicans started the war in Iraq and Afghanistan so that's not true. And Republicans are against increasing the federal minimum wage so that's also not true. Disinformation is what won this campaign.
        mango7283 2y ago
        Notably those wars were not started or escalated by Trump's republican party. While >Dick Cheney< got accepted by Dems now just because he is against Trump...
        LunaSea 2y ago
        I see that we're already moving goalposts. Trump has a responsibility in escalating the tension between Israel and Palestine following the move of the American embassy to Jerusalem. He also escalated bombings in Syria. His terrible Afghan deal also made it so that there was no time or guarantees to fly Americans and people that helped America to the US while also leaving a lot of American military gear to the Talibans. This also ridiculed the US on the international stage.

atoav 2y ago

And: we don't care about ethics or looks as long as it serves us.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

impulser_ 2y ago

It's not immigrants. It's illegal immigrants. It was very clear from the beginning that this is what will kill the democrats chances. When you have poor people that have lived in this country since birth not be able to get help from the government because the government services in their community are over ran due to the influx of people. Who do you think they are going to vote for? Why do you think the Republicans had an historic election with minority voters? All they had to do was actually do anything about the tens of millions of immigrants coming over the board, but they ignored it and Trump used it against them. The Democrat party is ran by a bunch of idiots. Hopefully this is a wake up call for them to get with the real world on issues. Calling someone Hitler when they clearly aren't is also not going to help people support you especially AFTER he was president before and they experienced a presidency under him lol.

bagels 2y ago
[flagged]
- roenxi 2y ago
  > ...are poisoning the blood of this country Isn't that Nazi rhetoric? "Blood of the country" seems like exactly the sort of thing the Nazis would have been focused on. Are you going for irony?
  - bagels 2y ago
    Yes. They're poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. "All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning," Hitler wrote.
    - b112 2y ago
      Devil's advocate.. if Hilter once remarked that broccoli is good for you, would people throw that back at someone saying the same?

mrkeen 2y ago

> the message is: we don't want immigrants It wasn't the case last time with Melania. And it won't be the case this time with Musk.

caskstrength 2y ago

> we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us) It is not even that since what they basically propose is to dial down the war in Eastern Europe but get more involved in the war in Middle East and possibly soon in East Asia. That stance always seemed very confusing to me as a non-US person.

alephnerd 2y ago
> That stance always seemed very confusing to me as a non-US person. Europeans seem to overestimate how close America is to Europe. If you live in the Western half of the United States, Asia is much closer than Eastern Europe, most US military deployments are in the Pacific, and most foreign trade the US has is with Asia. Both parties campaigned on leaving the Middle East, but it is difficult to disengage from the region without devolving power to a regional ally (similar to how the US historically let France take the reigns on African relations). Historically, that ally has been Israel and Turkiye, but relations between the US and them have fallen precipitously.

zmmmmm 2y ago

it's actually really interesting, Trump already modified his rhetoric. In the rallies in the last week and in his acceptance speech he has suddenly talked about how they want immigrants to come in legally - even went out of his way to talk about "geninuses" in the acceptance speech. Pretty clear here that people like Musk have been heavily exerting influence to shape his viewpoint towards favouring immigration that allows high skilled workers in.

ossobuco 2y ago

> we don't want to help other countries at our short term cost (even if it is a long term gain for us) More like stop trying so hard to bring us closer to a WWIII. The USA's current foreign policy is the main cause of all the turmoil we're seeing in eastern Europe and the Middle East. Anything that can change it should be welcomed by anyone with a desire to live.

gmueckl 2y ago
The game theoretic irony is that peace can often only be achieved by building up the military strength to deter potential attackers. There are a few places in the world where US involvement can lead tonkore stability. Faltering US support for the Ukraine will tempt Russia into more territorial expansion towards or even into NATO. China will probably ramp up aggression against Taiwan and against the Philippines. It is a minor miracle that no lethal shots have yet been fired in the persistent and aggressive military incursions into Philippines territorial waters. Several navy vessels have already been damaged this year. I believe that the best way to release tensions in the Middle East would be by improving relations with Iran - but Trump bombed the deal that would have enabled that. The relqtive economic stength of the US could have been a good motivatir. Now Iran is aligning itself with Russia.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  > The game theoretic irony is that peace can often only be achieved by building up the military strength to deter potential attackers. Nobody has attacked the USA since Pearl Harbor. Military strength has been used to impose hegemony over other parts of the world, not to protect the nation. > There are a few places in the world where US involvement can lead tonkore stability. How can you say that after the countless deaths, pain, and strife caused by the USA in the Middle East, Asia, and South America?
  - nullocator 2y ago
    > Nobody has attacked the USA since Pearl Harbor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks Seems big to leave out especially since your next remark is about strife caused by the USA in the Middle East...