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As a Pole I'm very afraid what this will mean for my region. With Trump wanting to support Russia over Ukraine and his talk about leaving NATO, yeah.
by StefanBatory 2y ago
As a Pole I'm very afraid what this will mean for my region.
With Trump wanting to support Russia over Ukraine and his talk about leaving NATO, yeah.
- stavros 2y ago[flagged]
- moralestapia 2y agoThe "no war" candidate is/was Trump.
- stavros 2y agoIs this "no war anywhere", or "no war for us until it comes to our doorstep, other than that I don't care"?
- V__ 2y agoHe wants Netanjahu to go hard on Gaza and give half of Ukraine to Russia... easy to be a no-war candidate that way.
- LunaSea 2y agoYes, if you immediately give up and lose you're technically not at war anymore. Trump made the US look like a joke.
- moralestapia 2y agoSo the war has to continue in order to have no war? Let me put my clown mask on ...
- LunaSea 2y agoOr, you know, you can win. The mask goes well with the candidate.
- moralestapia 2y agoOh yeah, you're right. I forgot they could just press the "win the war" button!
- LunaSea 2y agoI'm sorry, are you saying that Trump is too weak to win a war?
- StefanBatory 2y agoSure, mind telling that to Russia?
- stavros 2y agoI didn't think a joke about Poland starting world wars would need a /s, but here we are.
- jpmoral 2y agoThe West's drip-feeding of support and arbitrary restrictions on the use of weapons was a disaster.
- cpursley 2y agoAvoiding nuclear holocaust was a disaster?
- bogle 2y agoMAD. It actually works. Putin has had his bluff called on this.
- cpursley 2y agoNonsense, there was no call. Blowing some shit up in the grey zone (or even Kursk) is one thing - his state hasn’t been threatened in any real way (which is their nuke threshold policy). However, lobbing western made (and make no mistake, western operated) weapons into their internationally recognized territory is an entirely different ballgame.
- bogle 2y agoReuters [1]. Don't be an idiot. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/has-putin-threatened-use-nuclear-weapons-2022-10-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/has-putin-threatened-us...
- cpursley 2y agoThat’s a typical drive-by headline. Did you even read the article? Or the first hand sources? Putin never once threatened using nukes out of the blue like some kind of madman - only reinstated their pretty bog standard nuclear defense policy when asked about it. Context is important, don’t be an idiot.
- nmeagent 2y agoWe have been very lucky[1]. Do you really want to push that luck? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_close_calls https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_close_calls
- TrackerFF 2y agoTrump will try to strong-arm more NATO countries, but the 2% GDP spending goal is well within reach for most NATO members. With that said, NATO members (France, UK) have nukes. That's a line Putin can't cross.
- manquer 2y agoHe is not attacking them directly though, UK is pretty internally focused and won't really do much if the Ukraine operations expand and include to say other former soviet block countries. In mainland Europe, France with La-Penne and Germany with AfD and now Sarah Wagenknecht[1] have far-right problems of their own and don't have political will for anti Russia stance so they won't be able do much either, rest of Europe are minor players or far-right governments like in Hungary under Orbàn. [1] I refuse to call her party far left, now matter how she is described in media.
- pferde 2y agoI guess that's the best case scenario right now. The worst case scenario is Trump pulling out of NATO completely, and (effectively or officially) allying with Russia. I really hope I'm just not seeing all the pieces, and that such option is not even remotely viable, but it would be bad.
- TrackerFF 2y agoRegarding the last point: I'm quite sure the US will see a military coup, in the event that Trump tries to ally with Russia and become enemies with NATO countries. I mean, I don't think it is possible for Trump to pull out of NATO. Worst case is he simply decides to shut off all funding. Politicians are short term, military officers are life-long and ideological.
- StefanBatory 2y agoEastern Europe countries do have more than 2% GDP - and I don't think Trump will care about that.
- bagels 2y agoEurope is going to have to meet the challenge alone.
- elorant 2y agoWe Europeans have to start developing our own defense strategy independently of US influence.
- verisimi 2y agoWhat are your thoughts?
- StefanBatory 2y agoIt should have been done eight years ago, alas... :|
- 4ad 2y agoNo, it should have been done over 70 years ago.
- galfarragem 2y ago[flagged]
- StefanBatory 2y agoTo be clear, from American perspective - surely. I'm not saying that in a positive manner or negative, just as a statement of fact. Ultimately besides aliances USA has no real need to care about Europe. And from a local perspective - a grumpy neighbour that helped kickstart World War II, that enslaved my entire region for ages and raped their way through.
- galfarragem 2y agoThe real enemy is trying to trespass your frontiers with Belarus. That's where we (Polish or Europeans like me) should focus. Platforma is a step in the wrong direction. The rest is just a distraction; fear makes the wolf bigger than it really is.
- rob74 2y agoThe world's real problems are the climate crisis and global instability and inequality which lead to mass migration. I haven't really heard anything convincing from Trump on how he plans to tackle these (I don't mean the migration itself, but how the reasons for it might be eliminated).
- galfarragem 2y ago> global instability and inequality which lead to mass migration I'm not risking much by saying that the world was never as equal or stable. People migrate more now because they can (thanks to tech advances and permissive politics). Before, it was an order of magnitude harder. I know globalization is inevitable. Where people disagree is on the rate of change: let's speed it up (progressives) or slow it down (conservatives). The average people - the ones who are paying the bill - want to slow it down. Let's just accept it.
- waihtis 2y agoAs an european how about we take responsibility for our own countries instead of outsourcing it to america?
- tankenmate 2y agoIndeed an EU nuclear weapons program is now a strong possibility.
- Maken 2y agoOr just everyone joining the French one. They already have supersonic ICBMs.
- tankenmate 2y agoThe EU will most likely move towards developing a nuclear force of their own (as opposed to France only (the UK no longer being a member of the EU)). If the EU declines to do this then the Polish government and possibly the Swedes will do it. It's a toss up whether Germany will in my estimation. Nuclear proliferation incoming.
- throw_m239339 2y ago> The EU will most likely move towards developing a nuclear force of their own (as opposed to France only (the UK no longer being a member of the EU)). The EU has no army. NATO (which UK is part of) is still in effect and it is not going to change.
- tankenmate 2y agoTrump has pushed to extricate the US from NATO, and as De Niro said in Ronin; "if there's doubt then there is no doubt". If you want security can you really rely on someone who may or may not have your back, especially if they have a policy of transactionalism? So, the EU needs to look to their own security, and the ultimate deterrence is nuclear weapons. And if the EU doesn't take up the mantle then the Poles will definitely do it, and probably Sweden, and possibly Finland / Germany. And so the EU needs to figure out if they are happy with a fragmented nuclear policy or not.
- throw_m239339 2y ago> Trump has pushed to extricate the US from NATO, and as De Niro said in Ronin; "if there's doubt then there is no doubt". Nothing is going to happen to NATO. Hollywood's opinion has been proven worthless and have no influence on elections.
- ben_w 2y agoRussia denied there was going to be an invasion of Ukraine even the day before it started. In 2014, nothing was going to threaten the UK's membership of the EU. In 1989, the Berlin Wall was going to stay put for another 50-100 years. In 1938, the UK Prime Minister waved paper promising peace in our time. Nobody saw the Great Depression coming in January 1929. The mesh of treaties including the Triple Entente was supposed to prevent WW1. The southern states were convinced they had both legal right to secede and the economic support and military power that the north wouldn't try to keep them. The British were convinced that democracy was a stupid idea and that the 13 colonies would come crawling back when they realised they needed some proper aristocrats to govern. The world doesn't much care about things like this, pro or con.
- Maken 2y agoSadly, it is time for the EU to develop its own coordinated army. I think in the long term it will be better if we are able to have our own geopolitical interests, instead of having to follow the USA in everything because they are our bodyguard.
- StefanBatory 2y agoAbsolutely. That being said I don't see EU being able to develop a consensus on this - even if just because of Orban and Fico being Trump allies. Can't mess with them or Trump will raise hell.