5 ms·

>It's not acceptable to make fun of people for being skinny, ginger, shy, black, white, female, or any other things that the in group considers non-standard for

>It's not acceptable to make fun of people for being skinny, ginger, shy, black, white, female, or any other things that the in group considers non-standard for whatever weird reasons. How about let people say and do whatever they want amongst themselves and stay out of their conversations. Dudes in dangerous professions bond by calling each other slurs which is ok because they're all in on it, such that if you can't handle some bad words how are you gonna handle the real dangers of the profession where people need to know you have their backs, so you're either not cut out for the job. You as an outsider from the nice people bubble don't have a say in this to lecture them since you're not in on it.

fzeroracer 2y ago
What does any of this have to do with what they said? There's a difference between an in-group privately calling each other whatever and said in-group directing it towards someone not part of said group.
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Angostura 2y ago
> How about let people say and do whatever they want amongst themselves and stay out of their conversations. Sounds like a great way of excluding people from the workforce.
- linuxftw 2y ago
  Sounds like an opportunity for any of the wealthy left-leaning people to start a competitor and seize market share by hiring those traditional companies consider undesirable.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    We did it guys. We solved workplace harassment! The market will solve everything.
  - pjc50 2y ago
    I've seen a few "female plumber" companies advertising on this basis, with the implied promise of not being rude or patronizing to female customers.
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- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Great at excluding snowflakes which is what you want in those dangerous professions. If you get pissy that someone called you ginger, you're clearly not cut for any demanding and dangerous job. Better stay in your sanitized white collar safe space while you tweet how the world is mean.
  - Angostura 2y ago
    Check out professions by suicide rates https://www.registerednursing.org/articles/suicide-rates-profession/ https://www.registerednursing.org/articles/suicide-rates-pro... Apparently a lot of construction, extraction installation, maintenance and repair folk have a very bad time of i. Perhaps if they could get decent support in the work place that wouldn't happen. Though I suppose you'd probably conclude it's just natural attrition as the snowflakes kill themselves.
- itsoktocry 2y ago
  If a workplace has a culture you don't like, they aren't excluding you, you are choosing to exclude yourself. That's fine, but why do you think the culture should mould to your needs?
  - Angostura 2y ago
    > why do you think the culture should mould to your needs? I think a professional work culture should generally be such as to allow the people who are capable of doing the work with the minimum ofaggression aimed at them. Controversial, I know.
EliRivers 2y ago
"how are you gonna handle the real dangers of the profession where people need to know you have their backs" Some dickhead flinging racial slurs at me all day doesn't make me feel that they have my back. Quite the opposite, actually.
- joemazerino 2y ago
  Have you ever attended a mandatory DEI meeting? The entire premise of that industry is to tell you which slurs are acceptable (ie: cisgender ) and which are not.
  - DFHippie 2y ago
    "Cisgender" is a slur the same way "male", "heterosexual", and "white" are (I am all three; four, including cisgender). In other words, it is not a slur.
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      Slur isn't an intrinsic property of a word: it's a property of how it's used. "Male" can be a slur, as can "heterosexual", or "management". In theory, "cisgender" can also be a slur, though I've never heard such a use. (You'll sometimes hear "cissy", but I've never heard that used against a specific person.) You might argue that "punching up" is acceptable, or even that it's not slurring by definition (which I'd dispute), but membership of one "privileged class" doesn't automatically translate to actual privilege. (I think the feminists call this intersectionality.) In such a context, the labels of "privileged classes" absolutely can be used to punch down (e.g. saying "you're such a man" and slamming the door in the face of an impoverished gay transgender man trying to access domestic abuse services).
      - DFHippie 2y ago
        The usage of the word "slur" in question -- it has to be this if it's on a list one can learn from DEI consultants -- is a derogatory or insulting term applied to a particular group of people. It is inherent in the term itself, not in its use.* So it isn't simply anything that can be understood as an insult. All the stuff about "punching up" and so forth is beside the point. "cisgender" has a technical meaning which is still it's primary use: someone who identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth (so it can apply to intersex people as well). In this it is like "heterosexual" and "male". Arguably it is not like "white", in that who counts as white is malleable, but for the most part whatever it is, in most contexts, "white" is not a slur either. * I am in fact a lapsed linguist. I have a PhD. My specialization was in semantics and pragmatics. Semantics is meaning encoded in language. Pragmatics is meaning inferred from use: "it's cold in here" meaning "shut the window", for example. I am aware that one can talk more precisely and at much, much greater length about all of this. But this is Hacker News, so this is all I am going to say.

fzeroracer 2y ago

What does any of this have to do with what they said? There's a difference between an in-group privately calling each other whatever and said in-group directing it towards someone not part of said group.

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Angostura 2y ago

> How about let people say and do whatever they want amongst themselves and stay out of their conversations. Sounds like a great way of excluding people from the workforce.

linuxftw 2y ago
Sounds like an opportunity for any of the wealthy left-leaning people to start a competitor and seize market share by hiring those traditional companies consider undesirable.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  We did it guys. We solved workplace harassment! The market will solve everything.
- pjc50 2y ago
  I've seen a few "female plumber" companies advertising on this basis, with the implied promise of not being rude or patronizing to female customers.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Rinzler89 2y ago
Great at excluding snowflakes which is what you want in those dangerous professions. If you get pissy that someone called you ginger, you're clearly not cut for any demanding and dangerous job. Better stay in your sanitized white collar safe space while you tweet how the world is mean.
- Angostura 2y ago
  Check out professions by suicide rates https://www.registerednursing.org/articles/suicide-rates-profession/ https://www.registerednursing.org/articles/suicide-rates-pro... Apparently a lot of construction, extraction installation, maintenance and repair folk have a very bad time of i. Perhaps if they could get decent support in the work place that wouldn't happen. Though I suppose you'd probably conclude it's just natural attrition as the snowflakes kill themselves.
itsoktocry 2y ago
If a workplace has a culture you don't like, they aren't excluding you, you are choosing to exclude yourself. That's fine, but why do you think the culture should mould to your needs?
- Angostura 2y ago
  > why do you think the culture should mould to your needs? I think a professional work culture should generally be such as to allow the people who are capable of doing the work with the minimum ofaggression aimed at them. Controversial, I know.

EliRivers 2y ago

"how are you gonna handle the real dangers of the profession where people need to know you have their backs" Some dickhead flinging racial slurs at me all day doesn't make me feel that they have my back. Quite the opposite, actually.

joemazerino 2y ago
Have you ever attended a mandatory DEI meeting? The entire premise of that industry is to tell you which slurs are acceptable (ie: cisgender ) and which are not.
- DFHippie 2y ago
  "Cisgender" is a slur the same way "male", "heterosexual", and "white" are (I am all three; four, including cisgender). In other words, it is not a slur.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Slur isn't an intrinsic property of a word: it's a property of how it's used. "Male" can be a slur, as can "heterosexual", or "management". In theory, "cisgender" can also be a slur, though I've never heard such a use. (You'll sometimes hear "cissy", but I've never heard that used against a specific person.) You might argue that "punching up" is acceptable, or even that it's not slurring by definition (which I'd dispute), but membership of one "privileged class" doesn't automatically translate to actual privilege. (I think the feminists call this intersectionality.) In such a context, the labels of "privileged classes" absolutely can be used to punch down (e.g. saying "you're such a man" and slamming the door in the face of an impoverished gay transgender man trying to access domestic abuse services).
    - DFHippie 2y ago
      The usage of the word "slur" in question -- it has to be this if it's on a list one can learn from DEI consultants -- is a derogatory or insulting term applied to a particular group of people. It is inherent in the term itself, not in its use.* So it isn't simply anything that can be understood as an insult. All the stuff about "punching up" and so forth is beside the point. "cisgender" has a technical meaning which is still it's primary use: someone who identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth (so it can apply to intersex people as well). In this it is like "heterosexual" and "male". Arguably it is not like "white", in that who counts as white is malleable, but for the most part whatever it is, in most contexts, "white" is not a slur either. * I am in fact a lapsed linguist. I have a PhD. My specialization was in semantics and pragmatics. Semantics is meaning encoded in language. Pragmatics is meaning inferred from use: "it's cold in here" meaning "shut the window", for example. I am aware that one can talk more precisely and at much, much greater length about all of this. But this is Hacker News, so this is all I am going to say.