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I down-voted your comment. I don't believe in down-voting without giving a reason for having done so. Here's mine: Your post adds no value whatsoever. Think

I down-voted your comment. I don't believe in down-voting without giving a reason for having done so. Here's mine: Your post adds no value whatsoever. Think twice before hitting "reply" if all you are going to do is post a negative comment that is utterly irrelevant.

omonra 14y ago
Same idea can be expressed succinctly or with a lot of verbiage. Some prefer the former. The point of my post was asking the parent to consider this point.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- robomartin 14y ago
  That could have value. Did you take the time to study the matter and post a succinct explanation? I'd love to get a link to your post.
wpietri 14y ago
You'll note that your comment has no value except as author feedback. Isn't that exactly the value of the comment you downvoted?
- bmelton 14y ago
  I always prefer to leave a comment when I am downvoting, and I think that, at least in my head, it's beneficial in encouraging the type of behavior I would like to see more of on HN. Simply put, I would MUCH prefer to see a long, well-thought comment by someone who has obviously put effort into their post than someone deriding them for having been so wordy. Regrettably, I downvote so much more often than I used to (because there is, whether it's acknowledged or not, a battle between the 'old guard' and the new) that I am not able to leave commentary where I once would have, nor would my ire be appropriate by my own standard, so I often drive-by-downvote, all the while envisioning the day where HN will either be saved from those who prefer to make short, catchy quips than well thought diatribes, or I will leave. I don't mean to make this all dramatic, as I will likely leave unnoticed when that day comes, but I wanted to give some sort of additional commentary before saying that I also downvoted each of Omron's posts, and I don't feel that sort of post is at all appropriate here. Grellas' commentary is often invaluable on legal matters such as this, and I am visibly disappointed when I see legal threads where I could use some insight, and can't find a topical post by him on the matter as his posts are almost always the most enlightening for laypersons such as myself that are nevertheless interested. Lastly, while I generally abhor the notion of judging people by account ages or karma values, I think Grellas deserves far better than to be asked to shorten his posts by someone with 82 karma, though I would be just as vocal if Oman had 20,000 karma.
- robomartin 14y ago
  Posting an explanation for a down-vote is very rare. It should be a requirement for the privilege of down-voting on HN. It is also, in my opinion, good manners.
  - nkurz 14y ago
    I disagree. Personally, I try not to down-vote anything that I also respond to. I reserve down votes for comments that I don't think contribute to the conversation, and I don't want to give them more attention than they already have. I'd be fine with requiring an explanation that was visible only to the down-voted poster. I actually wish that more people would down-vote more freely, in the hope that low-quality comments would be more discouraged than they currently are.
    - robomartin 14y ago
      Perhaps the part that you are not seeing is that if the poster truly cares about engaging with the community he or she cares about understanding why their post is being down-voted. A lot of topics usher-in fanboi downvoting which is petty and unfair. A down-vote with an explanation is good because it will keep the down-voter from impulsive action and create a better relationship overall. It is possible that the down-vote isn't appropriate, which could come out of a discussion stemming from the down-vote comment. HN could easily make down-voting comments a requirement and then add a simply feature by which down-vote comments are folded below the original post and not visible. You could then have a "view down-vote comments" link that would reveal that thread. In other words, keep them out of the main conversation so that they don't clutter things yet make them available for review by interested parties.
      - nkurz 14y ago
        Perhaps the part that you are not seeing is that if the poster truly cares about engaging with the community he or she cares about understanding why their post is being down-voted. I see that, but am prioritizing the good of the group over the re-education of the individual. I think the majority of new posters will catch on to the norms of the site quickly, and those that don't will likely move on if they don't get responses. HN could easily make down-voting comments a requirement and then add a simply feature by which down-vote comments are folded below the original post and not visible. Fine idea. I posted it as a feature request here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4209304 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4209304

omonra 14y ago

Same idea can be expressed succinctly or with a lot of verbiage. Some prefer the former. The point of my post was asking the parent to consider this point.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
robomartin 14y ago
That could have value. Did you take the time to study the matter and post a succinct explanation? I'd love to get a link to your post.

wpietri 14y ago

You'll note that your comment has no value except as author feedback. Isn't that exactly the value of the comment you downvoted?

bmelton 14y ago
I always prefer to leave a comment when I am downvoting, and I think that, at least in my head, it's beneficial in encouraging the type of behavior I would like to see more of on HN. Simply put, I would MUCH prefer to see a long, well-thought comment by someone who has obviously put effort into their post than someone deriding them for having been so wordy. Regrettably, I downvote so much more often than I used to (because there is, whether it's acknowledged or not, a battle between the 'old guard' and the new) that I am not able to leave commentary where I once would have, nor would my ire be appropriate by my own standard, so I often drive-by-downvote, all the while envisioning the day where HN will either be saved from those who prefer to make short, catchy quips than well thought diatribes, or I will leave. I don't mean to make this all dramatic, as I will likely leave unnoticed when that day comes, but I wanted to give some sort of additional commentary before saying that I also downvoted each of Omron's posts, and I don't feel that sort of post is at all appropriate here. Grellas' commentary is often invaluable on legal matters such as this, and I am visibly disappointed when I see legal threads where I could use some insight, and can't find a topical post by him on the matter as his posts are almost always the most enlightening for laypersons such as myself that are nevertheless interested. Lastly, while I generally abhor the notion of judging people by account ages or karma values, I think Grellas deserves far better than to be asked to shorten his posts by someone with 82 karma, though I would be just as vocal if Oman had 20,000 karma.
robomartin 14y ago
Posting an explanation for a down-vote is very rare. It should be a requirement for the privilege of down-voting on HN. It is also, in my opinion, good manners.
- nkurz 14y ago
  I disagree. Personally, I try not to down-vote anything that I also respond to. I reserve down votes for comments that I don't think contribute to the conversation, and I don't want to give them more attention than they already have. I'd be fine with requiring an explanation that was visible only to the down-voted poster. I actually wish that more people would down-vote more freely, in the hope that low-quality comments would be more discouraged than they currently are.
  - robomartin 14y ago
    Perhaps the part that you are not seeing is that if the poster truly cares about engaging with the community he or she cares about understanding why their post is being down-voted. A lot of topics usher-in fanboi downvoting which is petty and unfair. A down-vote with an explanation is good because it will keep the down-voter from impulsive action and create a better relationship overall. It is possible that the down-vote isn't appropriate, which could come out of a discussion stemming from the down-vote comment. HN could easily make down-voting comments a requirement and then add a simply feature by which down-vote comments are folded below the original post and not visible. You could then have a "view down-vote comments" link that would reveal that thread. In other words, keep them out of the main conversation so that they don't clutter things yet make them available for review by interested parties.
    - nkurz 14y ago
      Perhaps the part that you are not seeing is that if the poster truly cares about engaging with the community he or she cares about understanding why their post is being down-voted. I see that, but am prioritizing the good of the group over the re-education of the individual. I think the majority of new posters will catch on to the norms of the site quickly, and those that don't will likely move on if they don't get responses. HN could easily make down-voting comments a requirement and then add a simply feature by which down-vote comments are folded below the original post and not visible. Fine idea. I posted it as a feature request here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4209304 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4209304