6 ms·

The workers should fire the execs and convert Mozilla into a democratically controlled worker-owned company.

by yesbut 2y ago

Alupis 2y ago
That is the problem that got them into this situation in the first place. No consistent leadership vision or direction - do everything and anything their staff wanted, almost none of which was actual tech. They hired activists - not technologists. Look at the results.
- Loughla 2y ago
  What are the results? I can't seem to Google that and get anything meaningful.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    You can google Firefox market share, Thunderbird market share, Mozilla's financial standing over the past two decades, all of their failed social justice endeavors, etc. The company rotted from the inside by allowing the inmates to run the asylum. Now Mozilla is severing the limb responsible for endless side-quests - but probably way too late. FTA: "Fighting for a free and open internet will always be core to our mission, and advocacy continues to be a critical tool in that work. We’re revisiting how we pursue that work, not stopping it" How about you just make the best damn web browser imaginable? One of the most important and influential technology companies ever ate itself into a failed advocacy group with a couple mediocre tech hobbies. What a joke...
    - tcfhgj 2y ago
      > How about you just make the best damn web browser imaginable? Difficult if you compete directly with your main money source
      - emmelaich 2y ago
        But that's their reason for being. So they have to try.
    - cxr 2y ago
      Your diagnosis is off. So many of the good workers got poached by Facebook and all the other companies that HNers dream of working for. Not all of them ever even worked for Mozilla Foundation or its subsidiaries—some simply got reassigned by the company that was actually paying them. Pre-Chrome, for example, the Firefox lead was a Google employee. And not that it's the product of any of the people who were let go, but developer.mozilla.org is a pretty valuable and high-impact resource. It's more "advocacy for a free and open Internet" than it is "making a browser".
      - rurban 2y ago
        In which illusionary world would HNers dream of working for Facebook, the ultimate evil cooperation, even more evil than Oracle, the CIA or Palantir?
        einsteinx2 2y ago
        Do you really believe there are no Facebook/Meta employees that use HN, the site based in Silicon Valley?
- Qwertious 2y ago
  >No consistent leadership vision or direction On the other hand, random side-projects are necessary for finding new ground before it craters you - like how Microsoft was absolutely cratered by the "smartphone" thing and their too-little-too-late Windows Phone.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    Microsoft didn't need a side project to figure that out, though. Hell, WinMo was already one of the two major smartphone/PDA OSes long before iPhone was a thing.
_HMCB_ 2y ago
I’ve been following them for over 20 years. Mozilla’s problem is idealism. One project to the next. At the end day, you have to pay your bills.
- Alupis 2y ago
  They seemingly spent the last 20 years actively figuring out ways not to make money. It's a terrible shame. They coast on the memories of yesteryear - a shell of their former selves.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - naasking 2y ago
    They did create some things of lasting value though, like Rust.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      And then proceeded to lay off the Rust team and force it out on its own. That probably worked out for the best in the end, but they don't get to claim credit for Rust's subsequent successes.
      - asadotzler 2y ago
        Bullshit. They made it. There is no Rust success without Mozilla, none. They can claim 100% credit for all of its successes, legitimately.
        lolinder 2y ago
        Just like you can claim 100% credit for all of your child's successes if you boot them out of the house without support as soon as they come of age?
      - naasking 2y ago
miki_oomiri 2y ago
90% of 2010’s Mozilla employees are gone. Most core employees are gone. Most Firefox-era developers are gone. Most PM and directors were brought in after firefox got big. They can’t even find a CEO. The people who made Mozilla great are now working somewhere else.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  That's incredibly sad. I wish those people had forked Firefox and created their own company to rival Mozilla. I would have switched.
  - alternatex 2y ago
    There is Zen browser, which is a fork of Firefox. Though no idea who's developing it.
    - tumsfestival 2y ago
      A bunch of randos, which doesn't really inspire much confidence.
  - drak0n1c 2y ago
    One did. Brave browser.
    - fyrn_ 2y ago
      Isn't brave just a chromium flavor?
      - matheusmoreira 2y ago
        It is. At least they're not forcing the controversial changes such as Manifest V3 onto their users.
        Daedren 2y ago
cxr 2y ago
This presupposes that decisions made by the collective would be better than the direction the execs have given. They won't. It will be just as ineffectual as the Mozilla we've known for the last 10 years.

The workers should fire the execs and convert Mozilla into a democratically controlled worker-owned company.

by yesbut 2y ago

The workers should fire the execs and convert Mozilla into a democratically controlled worker-owned company.

That is the problem that got them into this situation in the first place. No consistent leadership vision or direction - do everything and anything their staff wanted, almost none of which was actual tech. They hired activists - not technologists. Look at the results.

Loughla 2y ago
What are the results? I can't seem to Google that and get anything meaningful.
- Alupis 2y ago
  You can google Firefox market share, Thunderbird market share, Mozilla's financial standing over the past two decades, all of their failed social justice endeavors, etc. The company rotted from the inside by allowing the inmates to run the asylum. Now Mozilla is severing the limb responsible for endless side-quests - but probably way too late. FTA: "Fighting for a free and open internet will always be core to our mission, and advocacy continues to be a critical tool in that work. We’re revisiting how we pursue that work, not stopping it" How about you just make the best damn web browser imaginable? One of the most important and influential technology companies ever ate itself into a failed advocacy group with a couple mediocre tech hobbies. What a joke...
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    > How about you just make the best damn web browser imaginable? Difficult if you compete directly with your main money source
    - emmelaich 2y ago
      But that's their reason for being. So they have to try.
  - cxr 2y ago
    Your diagnosis is off. So many of the good workers got poached by Facebook and all the other companies that HNers dream of working for. Not all of them ever even worked for Mozilla Foundation or its subsidiaries—some simply got reassigned by the company that was actually paying them. Pre-Chrome, for example, the Firefox lead was a Google employee. And not that it's the product of any of the people who were let go, but developer.mozilla.org is a pretty valuable and high-impact resource. It's more "advocacy for a free and open Internet" than it is "making a browser".
    - rurban 2y ago
      In which illusionary world would HNers dream of working for Facebook, the ultimate evil cooperation, even more evil than Oracle, the CIA or Palantir?
      - einsteinx2 2y ago
        Do you really believe there are no Facebook/Meta employees that use HN, the site based in Silicon Valley?
Qwertious 2y ago
>No consistent leadership vision or direction On the other hand, random side-projects are necessary for finding new ground before it craters you - like how Microsoft was absolutely cratered by the "smartphone" thing and their too-little-too-late Windows Phone.
- int_19h 2y ago
  Microsoft didn't need a side project to figure that out, though. Hell, WinMo was already one of the two major smartphone/PDA OSes long before iPhone was a thing.

_HMCB_ 2y ago

I’ve been following them for over 20 years. Mozilla’s problem is idealism. One project to the next. At the end day, you have to pay your bills.

Alupis 2y ago
They seemingly spent the last 20 years actively figuring out ways not to make money. It's a terrible shame. They coast on the memories of yesteryear - a shell of their former selves.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- naasking 2y ago
  They did create some things of lasting value though, like Rust.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    And then proceeded to lay off the Rust team and force it out on its own. That probably worked out for the best in the end, but they don't get to claim credit for Rust's subsequent successes.
    - asadotzler 2y ago
      Bullshit. They made it. There is no Rust success without Mozilla, none. They can claim 100% credit for all of its successes, legitimately.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        Just like you can claim 100% credit for all of your child's successes if you boot them out of the house without support as soon as they come of age?
    - naasking 2y ago

miki_oomiri 2y ago

90% of 2010’s Mozilla employees are gone. Most core employees are gone. Most Firefox-era developers are gone. Most PM and directors were brought in after firefox got big. They can’t even find a CEO. The people who made Mozilla great are now working somewhere else.

matheusmoreira 2y ago
That's incredibly sad. I wish those people had forked Firefox and created their own company to rival Mozilla. I would have switched.
- alternatex 2y ago
  There is Zen browser, which is a fork of Firefox. Though no idea who's developing it.
  - tumsfestival 2y ago
    A bunch of randos, which doesn't really inspire much confidence.
- drak0n1c 2y ago
  One did. Brave browser.
  - fyrn_ 2y ago
    Isn't brave just a chromium flavor?
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      It is. At least they're not forcing the controversial changes such as Manifest V3 onto their users.
      - Daedren 2y ago

cxr 2y ago

This presupposes that decisions made by the collective would be better than the direction the execs have given. They won't. It will be just as ineffectual as the Mozilla we've known for the last 10 years.