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>that poor people don't get the tax but rich people do Because poor people can't spend money (since they don't have it), hence they pay much less (or even no t

>that poor people don't get the tax but rich people do Because poor people can't spend money (since they don't have it), hence they pay much less (or even no tax). The curve of a power law formula can be modified to whatever is socially acceptable. Otherwise, rich people who are hoarding assets will get taxed via land value taxes utilizing the same framework. >you've still got problems of hiding how much I'm spending through various legal entities. Same with income tax. Completely stamping out tax evasion is not a realistic goal with any system. Also, various legal entities are all tied to beneficial owners with taxpayer ID numbers. Databases would make quick work of sorting this kind of stuff out. >It also has a macro economic problem, at least how the consumer economy is structured, that could slow down the gears of business until society realigns (if it does) because people will be incentivized to consume less. Yes, that is why it is a pipe dream. But it would actually accomplish environmental goals as opposed to just pay lip service and pretend. >You've got alternative models where you go after specific products and tax more for conspicuous consumption like yachts but that feels like it has all the inefficiencies of central planning a market. Completely unnecessary to complicate things which also opens up avenues for corruption. A yacht is super expensive, it's obviously going to be hit with a ton of tax. Just come up with a tax curve (like we already do with the various income tax deductions/brackets) that provides the tax revenue and still allows people to spend enough money to provide for their basic needs.

vlovich123 2y ago
> Because poor people can't spend money (since they don't have it), hence they pay much less (or even no tax) Poor people can buy a car. Middle class families can buy 2 cars. Neither can buy 100 exotic cars. Is the purchase of each additional car going to increase the tax paid? Are exotic cars taxed more? You keep stating to use a power law formula but you're critically omitting what the inputs are to determine your tax rate. And now you've also admitted that assets determine your sales tax whereas you seemed to be arguing earlier that that wasn't the case when asked if the sales tax rate is dependent on your ability to hide assets. > Otherwise, rich people who are hoarding assets will get taxed via land value taxes utilizing the same framework Rich people hoard assets in all sorts of ways including collecting physical items which you can store where land is cheap if you wanted. That's why the income tax is effective - it's taxation at the moment the money changes hands / you've realized a gain.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  > Is the purchase of each additional car going to increase the tax paid? Yes, tax liability = total spending during the year plugged into the power law tax formula. >Are exotic cars taxed more? Depends how much the taxpayer spends in a year. There is no tax rate for each specific item. The tax rate is for a total level of spending, which eliminates all loopholes. > You keep stating to use a power law formula but you're critically omitting what the inputs are to determine your tax rate. The input is total spend in a year. Just like right now, the input is income in a year. > And now you've also admitted that assets determine your sales tax No, I did not. The formula to calculate sales tax liability only requires inputting total spending. Land value taxes are a separate thing. We currently have land value taxes, except they are flat rate and too low because property taxes inefficiently tax improvements on the land more than the land itself. > That's why the income tax is effective - it's taxation at the moment the money changes hands / you've realized a gain. Sales tax can also be at the moment the money changes hands. It currently is. Even with the complication of a power law tax formula, I can’t see why the government can’t email you a monthly invoice.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    > Sales tax can also be at the moment the money changes hands Are services included in this sales tax? e.g. if I hire a cleaning company to clean my apartment? I'm assuming they would be right? Now what distinguishes that scenario from an employee being hired?
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Yes, I don’t think I have come across a US state where sales tax doesn’t also get applied to most services. > Now what distinguishes that scenario from an employee being hired? Not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but the cleaning service’s employees do not become your employees because you don’t get to manage the cleaning service’s employees and it’s usually a limited time work engagement. There’s quite a bit more that goes into creating an employer / employee relationship.
    - 2y ago

vlovich123 2y ago

> Because poor people can't spend money (since they don't have it), hence they pay much less (or even no tax) Poor people can buy a car. Middle class families can buy 2 cars. Neither can buy 100 exotic cars. Is the purchase of each additional car going to increase the tax paid? Are exotic cars taxed more? You keep stating to use a power law formula but you're critically omitting what the inputs are to determine your tax rate. And now you've also admitted that assets determine your sales tax whereas you seemed to be arguing earlier that that wasn't the case when asked if the sales tax rate is dependent on your ability to hide assets. > Otherwise, rich people who are hoarding assets will get taxed via land value taxes utilizing the same framework Rich people hoard assets in all sorts of ways including collecting physical items which you can store where land is cheap if you wanted. That's why the income tax is effective - it's taxation at the moment the money changes hands / you've realized a gain.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
> Is the purchase of each additional car going to increase the tax paid? Yes, tax liability = total spending during the year plugged into the power law tax formula. >Are exotic cars taxed more? Depends how much the taxpayer spends in a year. There is no tax rate for each specific item. The tax rate is for a total level of spending, which eliminates all loopholes. > You keep stating to use a power law formula but you're critically omitting what the inputs are to determine your tax rate. The input is total spend in a year. Just like right now, the input is income in a year. > And now you've also admitted that assets determine your sales tax No, I did not. The formula to calculate sales tax liability only requires inputting total spending. Land value taxes are a separate thing. We currently have land value taxes, except they are flat rate and too low because property taxes inefficiently tax improvements on the land more than the land itself. > That's why the income tax is effective - it's taxation at the moment the money changes hands / you've realized a gain. Sales tax can also be at the moment the money changes hands. It currently is. Even with the complication of a power law tax formula, I can’t see why the government can’t email you a monthly invoice.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  > Sales tax can also be at the moment the money changes hands Are services included in this sales tax? e.g. if I hire a cleaning company to clean my apartment? I'm assuming they would be right? Now what distinguishes that scenario from an employee being hired?
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Yes, I don’t think I have come across a US state where sales tax doesn’t also get applied to most services. > Now what distinguishes that scenario from an employee being hired? Not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but the cleaning service’s employees do not become your employees because you don’t get to manage the cleaning service’s employees and it’s usually a limited time work engagement. There’s quite a bit more that goes into creating an employer / employee relationship.
  - 2y ago