4 ms·

I agree with Eric, but the problem is that even if you own your router (many residential users have provider-provided hardware), and run Tomato or DD-WRT, etc .

by quesera 14y ago

I agree with Eric, but the problem is that even if you own your router (many residential users have provider-provided hardware), and run Tomato or DD-WRT, etc ... You have only one next hop, and zero control over that router. So yes, don't invite Cisco into your living room, obviously. (Nor Cisco/Scientific Atlanta, but that's another discussion..!) But you're still powerless and privacyless, sorry. Get a VPN box and tunnel everything (I do), but that's just kicking the can a few years down the road (less if you pick a cheap host). Also, the bigger message from this fiasco is that Cisco is feeling revenue pressure even in their protective low margin consumer networking business. Cisco has never been a good consumer company, but they've just never cared enough to get "creative" before. That's a bad bad sign for Cisco. Chambers, like Ballmer, has presided over ten-plus years of sideways, and this move seems desperate. Run for the exits.

ableal 14y ago
> many residential users have provider-provided hardware Yep. Even if I bothered to find a replacement for my combination cable modem/router, I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware. Probably not contractually required to do so. I'm reminded of the liberation of phone handsets from the phone company - up until the 1980s, most everywhere, it used to be that one could only connect to the network a phone leased from the carrier. The issue of who controls (has root) on all the computers we supposedly own, starting with internet access routers and going on to printers, smart-phones, e-book readers, game consoles, disc players and TVs, is a vexing one.
- derleth 14y ago
  > I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware I honestly, no-ulterior-motive wonder how often this happens. I mean, isn't ADSL governed by real-world written-down standards? Isn't DOCSIS an actual standard? If so, and given the absolute standardization of things like ARP, RARP, DHCP, and so on, where could the problem possibly come in? Do they scan routers and refuse to talk to ones that don't respond with the right software version numbers?
  - rictic 14y ago
    A piece of anecdata: I've got comcast, and I recently bought my own cable modem because the provider given one was dropping packets. To get it to connect at all, I needed to call them up and tell them the model number and the the MAC address (or something that seemed analogous) of the router. I had two models to choose from (fewer than usual because I needed DOCSIS 3 I think), and they made it very clear that these were the only models they would allow you to use. (it almost goes without saying, despite using their business support, it took three or four days, most of which I was without usable internet)
    - lesterbuck 14y ago
      I started Comcast service about a year ago. They have a page of approved hardware on the web, and I bought a new modem off of that page. It seemed there was plenty of choice even then. I happened to pick a Motorola SB6150. What surprised me was that there was not a shred of technical information or any management screen. After the cable was installed in my house, my brand new modem was attached to the cable infrastructure and then downloaded Comcast firmware for about twenty minutes. After my modem had completely joined the Borg, only then was it allowed to offer me internet service. Sigh...
      - mmmooo 14y ago
        sadly, that is DOCSIS. You get to see very little (some modems provide signal levels, some debug info, etc) if anything at all. Everything else comes from/is controlled by the CMTS. Even in the enterprise grade modems like cisco hwic's, the docsis portion is almost entirely hidden from you.
      - earl 14y ago
        I had the same experience. I have comcast and I bought a Motorola SB6121 on amazon because it was $85 and comcast charges you $7/mo to rent a cablemodem so you save money after only one year. Anyway, I plugged the modem in, it downloaded some config, rebooted, and started talking to comcast. It was pretty painless. And I just picked the cheapest docsis 3 modem off a list of probably 25 approved models.
- nodata 14y ago
  > Even if I bothered to find a replacement for my combination cable modem/router, I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware. Probably not contractually required to do so. You plug the vendor provided hardware into your hardware.
dredmorbius 14y ago
If you own the first hop, you can run Tor or a similar proxy from it. There are also local "mesh" networks which are available, though I haven't played with them. They have some level of applicability in oppressive regimes, and if I understand properly are not quite as poorly performing as Tor can be / is.
- azernik 14y ago
  If you're going to be running Tor, you don't even really need that first hop - you just need to control the software on your computer.
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Point, but Tor on router means automatic default privacy for the network. And no tattling to Cisco.

by quesera 14y ago

ableal 14y ago

> many residential users have provider-provided hardware Yep. Even if I bothered to find a replacement for my combination cable modem/router, I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware. Probably not contractually required to do so. I'm reminded of the liberation of phone handsets from the phone company - up until the 1980s, most everywhere, it used to be that one could only connect to the network a phone leased from the carrier. The issue of who controls (has root) on all the computers we supposedly own, starting with internet access routers and going on to printers, smart-phones, e-book readers, game consoles, disc players and TVs, is a vexing one.

derleth 14y ago
> I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware I honestly, no-ulterior-motive wonder how often this happens. I mean, isn't ADSL governed by real-world written-down standards? Isn't DOCSIS an actual standard? If so, and given the absolute standardization of things like ARP, RARP, DHCP, and so on, where could the problem possibly come in? Do they scan routers and refuse to talk to ones that don't respond with the right software version numbers?
- rictic 14y ago
  A piece of anecdata: I've got comcast, and I recently bought my own cable modem because the provider given one was dropping packets. To get it to connect at all, I needed to call them up and tell them the model number and the the MAC address (or something that seemed analogous) of the router. I had two models to choose from (fewer than usual because I needed DOCSIS 3 I think), and they made it very clear that these were the only models they would allow you to use. (it almost goes without saying, despite using their business support, it took three or four days, most of which I was without usable internet)
  - lesterbuck 14y ago
    I started Comcast service about a year ago. They have a page of approved hardware on the web, and I bought a new modem off of that page. It seemed there was plenty of choice even then. I happened to pick a Motorola SB6150. What surprised me was that there was not a shred of technical information or any management screen. After the cable was installed in my house, my brand new modem was attached to the cable infrastructure and then downloaded Comcast firmware for about twenty minutes. After my modem had completely joined the Borg, only then was it allowed to offer me internet service. Sigh...
    - mmmooo 14y ago
      sadly, that is DOCSIS. You get to see very little (some modems provide signal levels, some debug info, etc) if anything at all. Everything else comes from/is controlled by the CMTS. Even in the enterprise grade modems like cisco hwic's, the docsis portion is almost entirely hidden from you.
    - earl 14y ago
      I had the same experience. I have comcast and I bought a Motorola SB6121 on amazon because it was $85 and comcast charges you $7/mo to rent a cablemodem so you save money after only one year. Anyway, I plugged the modem in, it downloaded some config, rebooted, and started talking to comcast. It was pretty painless. And I just picked the cheapest docsis 3 modem off a list of probably 25 approved models.
nodata 14y ago
> Even if I bothered to find a replacement for my combination cable modem/router, I don't know if the ISP / cable company would "talk" to the new hardware. Probably not contractually required to do so. You plug the vendor provided hardware into your hardware.

dredmorbius 14y ago

If you own the first hop, you can run Tor or a similar proxy from it. There are also local "mesh" networks which are available, though I haven't played with them. They have some level of applicability in oppressive regimes, and if I understand properly are not quite as poorly performing as Tor can be / is.

azernik 14y ago
If you're going to be running Tor, you don't even really need that first hop - you just need to control the software on your computer.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Point, but Tor on router means automatic default privacy for the network. And no tattling to Cisco.