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Could you imagine how that would play out in case we started applying this logic everywhere, and we completely lost the concept of "the weekend"? - "I know tha

Could you imagine how that would play out in case we started applying this logic everywhere, and we completely lost the concept of "the weekend"? - "I know that this is your day off, but everyone will be requested to come to work this Wednesday because the team is about to miss the sprint goal" - "Now that banks and stock markets open on Saturdays and Sundays, we will have to have everyone on call rotation, all week long." - "We do not have the budget to increase our team by 2/7, so everyone will have to pick up the slack" - "Sorry Jane, your refusal to continue on a strict Mon-Fri schedule is hurting your chances of making progress on this company. Yeah, I know you have children and that schools are not open all week long, but Mary has been showing up whenever asked and she seems to be more reliable". This idea of "individuals should be free to choose all the time" is also another good example of cultural differences between North Americans and Europeans. Look at the American companies that claim to offer "unlimited PTO", but when you probe it a bit further and ask how many vacation days employees took on average, the recruiter will tell you "oh, about 12 days". This idea of "freedom to choose" works mostly to get in favor of the system to get peons pitting against each other. The only way to have the majority of people benefiting from a community-level policy is to apply it at that level.

yorwba 2y ago
It's funny that you bring up PTO, since all your examples could be applied to PTO as well (all-hands meeting when you're on vacation, on-call rotation throughout the year, 24 legally guaranteed minimum vacation days straining budgets, parents timing their vacation to coincide with school break) and the European solution is to have a minimum number of days everyone gets off, but they're free to choose when.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Vacations have a completely different context from weekend breaks. It's one thing to have an organization planning around a down time once in the year than a constant weekly reset of schedules, employee requests, etc.
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
no problema kollega, just yuze nu calenda! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement#/media/File:Technocracy-Calendar.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement#/media/Fi...
em-bee 2y ago
we have laws to protect against this kind of nonsense. if you are forced to work on a day off you have a right to get a free day within two weeks. the maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. same goes for the mother with children. childcare is an absolute right that can't be denied or lead to a disadvantage. the above behavior would be illegal, and it would be quite easy to put a stop to it. so none of your scenarios would come to pass. except the first one maybe, because that can be compensated with extra days off after the sprint.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Your naivete would be cute if it wasn't so dangerous. > maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. Ask anyone in a competitive industry, regardless of seniority, if there was ever a time in their career if they didn't work more than that. > childcare is an absolute right that can't be denied or lead to a disadvantage. Just today I saw a post on LinkedIn from a woman telling the story of how she came back from maternity leave to find out how her report was promoted to do her job and she was offered the lower position but kept with the original pay/benefits. It's a shitty situation and the woman claimed she had the privilege to tell them to shove it, but there is nothing illegal about it.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    in germany this i absolutely illegal. even in the US this is probably considered discrimination: https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination
    - rglullis 2y ago
      The woman got back with her job title and pay intact, but because during her absence her report took over her work, the company had to decide which of the two employees would have to perform the secondary function. What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed? Keep two employees as the "boss" and be forced to hire a third one?

yorwba 2y ago

It's funny that you bring up PTO, since all your examples could be applied to PTO as well (all-hands meeting when you're on vacation, on-call rotation throughout the year, 24 legally guaranteed minimum vacation days straining budgets, parents timing their vacation to coincide with school break) and the European solution is to have a minimum number of days everyone gets off, but they're free to choose when.

rglullis 2y ago
Vacations have a completely different context from weekend breaks. It's one thing to have an organization planning around a down time once in the year than a constant weekly reset of schedules, employee requests, etc.

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

no problema kollega, just yuze nu calenda! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement#/media/File:Technocracy-Calendar.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement#/media/Fi...

em-bee 2y ago

we have laws to protect against this kind of nonsense. if you are forced to work on a day off you have a right to get a free day within two weeks. the maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. same goes for the mother with children. childcare is an absolute right that can't be denied or lead to a disadvantage. the above behavior would be illegal, and it would be quite easy to put a stop to it. so none of your scenarios would come to pass. except the first one maybe, because that can be compensated with extra days off after the sprint.

rglullis 2y ago
Your naivete would be cute if it wasn't so dangerous. > maximum worktime in a week is 48 hours. Ask anyone in a competitive industry, regardless of seniority, if there was ever a time in their career if they didn't work more than that. > childcare is an absolute right that can't be denied or lead to a disadvantage. Just today I saw a post on LinkedIn from a woman telling the story of how she came back from maternity leave to find out how her report was promoted to do her job and she was offered the lower position but kept with the original pay/benefits. It's a shitty situation and the woman claimed she had the privilege to tell them to shove it, but there is nothing illegal about it.
- em-bee 2y ago
  in germany this i absolutely illegal. even in the US this is probably considered discrimination: https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination
  - rglullis 2y ago
    The woman got back with her job title and pay intact, but because during her absence her report took over her work, the company had to decide which of the two employees would have to perform the secondary function. What do you think that a company should have done instead? Take back the promotion of the employee that stayed? Keep two employees as the "boss" and be forced to hire a third one?