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If a company is doing business here, the actual location of file is irrelevant. Also when the government is really motivated, he can arrested the founders or e

If a company is doing business here, the actual location of file is irrelevant. Also when the government is really motivated, he can arrested the founders or executives directly (Pavel Durov). Which is what they should do to Netflix execs if they are doing business illegally.

gruez 2y ago
>Also when the government is really motivated, he can arrested the founders or executives directly (Pavel Durov). Which is what they should do to Netflix execs if they are doing business illegally. You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? If they actually did something illegal, they can be arrested/tried for that, but arresting executives as a means to coerce companies into doing stuff is a total perversion of the rule of law.
- izacus 2y ago
  > You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? If they actually did something illegal, they can be arrested/tried for that, but arresting executives as a means to coerce companies into doing stuff is a total perversion of the rule of law. Turns out that witholding data as a company executive is outright illegal, so yeah, we're in favor of it and they can get arrested and charged for for it.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >Turns out that witholding data as a company executive is outright illegal, so yeah, we're in favor of it and they can get arrested and charged for for it. Except in this case it's not the executive that has the data. The data is sitting on some cloud server somewhere, and the executive no longer has access because the CISO got wind of the raid and locked his account. If you're holding the executive, you're not holding the executive because he's refusing to cooperate with a warrant, you're holding the executive as a hostage so HQ would turn over the document.
    - account42 2y ago
      So? If executives don't want to sit in jail due to their company's shady tactics they can just not approve those tactics. Alternative would be to shut the business down completely until they cooperate.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >they can just not approve those tactics. You think the VP of Uber France was involved in the approval of global IT policies regarding locking accounts when there's a raid?
- nerdbert 2y ago
  What if it is illegal to withhold the data during an investigation? Isn't the executive then committing a crime?
  - gruez 2y ago
    See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072
- multjoy 2y ago
  The executives are the company.
- sealeck 2y ago
  > You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? This is a very emotional way of saying "you're in favour of enforcing contempt of court rulings against people who try to obstruct the judicial process".
  - gruez 2y ago
    See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 it's not clear whether the executive has the ability to turn over the documents.
    - sealeck 2y ago
      The executive has the power to instruct other employees to do things.
MichaelZuo 2y ago
Irrelevant according to who?
avidiax 2y ago
That sounds like a pretty poor precedent when e.g. Russia or China raids the local office of a social media company to get data on a dissident.
- Dracophoenix 2y ago
  This situation already happened with X/Twitter when the Brazilian Supreme Court attempted to compel Elon & co to disclose the social media accounts of alleged rioters. Unfortunately, it seems few people learn from even recent history.

gruez 2y ago

>Also when the government is really motivated, he can arrested the founders or executives directly (Pavel Durov). Which is what they should do to Netflix execs if they are doing business illegally. You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? If they actually did something illegal, they can be arrested/tried for that, but arresting executives as a means to coerce companies into doing stuff is a total perversion of the rule of law.

izacus 2y ago
> You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? If they actually did something illegal, they can be arrested/tried for that, but arresting executives as a means to coerce companies into doing stuff is a total perversion of the rule of law. Turns out that witholding data as a company executive is outright illegal, so yeah, we're in favor of it and they can get arrested and charged for for it.
- gruez 2y ago
  >Turns out that witholding data as a company executive is outright illegal, so yeah, we're in favor of it and they can get arrested and charged for for it. Except in this case it's not the executive that has the data. The data is sitting on some cloud server somewhere, and the executive no longer has access because the CISO got wind of the raid and locked his account. If you're holding the executive, you're not holding the executive because he's refusing to cooperate with a warrant, you're holding the executive as a hostage so HQ would turn over the document.
  - account42 2y ago
    So? If executives don't want to sit in jail due to their company's shady tactics they can just not approve those tactics. Alternative would be to shut the business down completely until they cooperate.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >they can just not approve those tactics. You think the VP of Uber France was involved in the approval of global IT policies regarding locking accounts when there's a raid?
nerdbert 2y ago
What if it is illegal to withhold the data during an investigation? Isn't the executive then committing a crime?
- gruez 2y ago
  See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072
multjoy 2y ago
The executives are the company.
sealeck 2y ago
> You're in favor of holding executives hostage to demand access to data? This is a very emotional way of saying "you're in favour of enforcing contempt of court rulings against people who try to obstruct the judicial process".
- gruez 2y ago
  See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42057072 it's not clear whether the executive has the ability to turn over the documents.
  - sealeck 2y ago
    The executive has the power to instruct other employees to do things.

MichaelZuo 2y ago

Irrelevant according to who?

avidiax 2y ago

That sounds like a pretty poor precedent when e.g. Russia or China raids the local office of a social media company to get data on a dissident.

Dracophoenix 2y ago
This situation already happened with X/Twitter when the Brazilian Supreme Court attempted to compel Elon & co to disclose the social media accounts of alleged rioters. Unfortunately, it seems few people learn from even recent history.