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> How can that only be coming out now? It isn't? Maybe the issue is coming into the light now in the US because Saudi Arabia and US historically been close pal

by diggan 2y ago

> How can that only be coming out now? It isn't? Maybe the issue is coming into the light now in the US because Saudi Arabia and US historically been close pals, regardless of the human rights abuses, so maybe there hasn't been a push to "expose" them to the general public in the US until know? I remember reading about Indonesia being pissed off at Saudi Arabia because many of the Indonesian workers died after going there, and Saudi government didn't seem to really give a crap about the workers. I think I read about this back in 2010 the earliest or something, in Swedish media. It been known by the western world for a long time already.

bbor 2y ago
Yeah XKCD reminds us that something that "everyone knows" is taught to 10,000/day and we should have empathy, but I definitely think this is one of those situations. If you're curious how this could happen, there's a simple explanation, IMO: these countries are some of the small handful of non-republics left in the entire world. There's lots of authoritarian republics, but true totalitarian systems are another beast entirely, just from a cultural perspective alone. Here's a semi-outdated map that I'd argue Afghanistan has earned a place on, and also doesn't shout out The Holy See, which is also a theocratic monarchy: https://i0.wp.com/mattdallisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Mapped-The-Worlds-Legal-Government-Systems.jpg?fit=1198%2C696&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/mattdallisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/... The list is basically Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Holy See, and uhhhh that's kinda it. The UAE is a republic of monarchies, which is a fun/sad corner case. When the laws are made at the whim of the sovereign, chattel slavery isn't so unimaginable.
- StefanBatory 2y ago
  I'm not sure how correct that map is - i.e I always heard Poland being described as having semi-presidential republic system.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  I object to my country, New Zealand, having the same colour as the UK. Yes, we have that moronic family in the background somewhere, but we don’t have an unelected House of Lords. How that archaic system remains is baffling. Buy a seat and away you go!
  - bbor 2y ago
    I get where you’re coming from (so ridiculous…) but I would put too much stock into the various kinds of republics. They’re just labeling ostensible governmental systems, not trying to characterize relative levels of freedom. And y’all kiwis deserve derision until you manage to kick the old buffoons to the curb! At the very least you can do what India did and stay in the Commonwealth for economic/geopolitical signaling reasons, but declare sovereignty from the crown itself. EDIT: and tbh you still got em lurking. AFAICT the monarch has the power to dissolve parliament at any time and start new elections, and could exercise the power of veto? The Constitution Act 1986 is the principal formal statement. The Act first recognises that the Queen - the Sovereign in right of New Zealand - is the Head of State of New Zealand and that the Governor-General appointed by her is her representative in New Zealand. Each can in general exercise all the powers of the other… The Governor-General has the power to summon, prorogue and dissolve parliament… a Bill passed by the House becomes law when the Sovereign or Governor-General assents to it. There’s always the chance that trying this in practice would lead to an uprising, but as the US has recently taught us, polite conventions are a weak foundation for a democracy… imagine what a conspiracy theorist monarch could do if they worked with domestic fringe politicians! https://web.archive.org/web/19991009163331/http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/cabinet/manual/intro.html https://web.archive.org/web/19991009163331/http://www.dpmc.g...
banannaise 2y ago
Every time this sort of discussion comes up, I think back to this satire article: Due to the country’s long history of human-rights violations, WWE cancels upcoming events in United States https://www.kayfabenews.com/due-to-the-countrys-long-history-of-human-rights-violations-wwe-cancels-upcoming-events-in-united-states/ https://www.kayfabenews.com/due-to-the-countrys-long-history... It's obviously worse in some places than others, but world governments are generally complicit and see it as a fair price to pay for continued economic partnership and/or military alliance.

by diggan 2y ago

bbor 2y ago

Yeah XKCD reminds us that something that "everyone knows" is taught to 10,000/day and we should have empathy, but I definitely think this is one of those situations. If you're curious how this could happen, there's a simple explanation, IMO: these countries are some of the small handful of non-republics left in the entire world. There's lots of authoritarian republics, but true totalitarian systems are another beast entirely, just from a cultural perspective alone. Here's a semi-outdated map that I'd argue Afghanistan has earned a place on, and also doesn't shout out The Holy See, which is also a theocratic monarchy: https://i0.wp.com/mattdallisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Mapped-The-Worlds-Legal-Government-Systems.jpg?fit=1198%2C696&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/mattdallisson.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/... The list is basically Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Holy See, and uhhhh that's kinda it. The UAE is a republic of monarchies, which is a fun/sad corner case. When the laws are made at the whim of the sovereign, chattel slavery isn't so unimaginable.

StefanBatory 2y ago
I'm not sure how correct that map is - i.e I always heard Poland being described as having semi-presidential republic system.
lostlogin 2y ago
I object to my country, New Zealand, having the same colour as the UK. Yes, we have that moronic family in the background somewhere, but we don’t have an unelected House of Lords. How that archaic system remains is baffling. Buy a seat and away you go!
- bbor 2y ago
  I get where you’re coming from (so ridiculous…) but I would put too much stock into the various kinds of republics. They’re just labeling ostensible governmental systems, not trying to characterize relative levels of freedom. And y’all kiwis deserve derision until you manage to kick the old buffoons to the curb! At the very least you can do what India did and stay in the Commonwealth for economic/geopolitical signaling reasons, but declare sovereignty from the crown itself. EDIT: and tbh you still got em lurking. AFAICT the monarch has the power to dissolve parliament at any time and start new elections, and could exercise the power of veto? The Constitution Act 1986 is the principal formal statement. The Act first recognises that the Queen - the Sovereign in right of New Zealand - is the Head of State of New Zealand and that the Governor-General appointed by her is her representative in New Zealand. Each can in general exercise all the powers of the other… The Governor-General has the power to summon, prorogue and dissolve parliament… a Bill passed by the House becomes law when the Sovereign or Governor-General assents to it. There’s always the chance that trying this in practice would lead to an uprising, but as the US has recently taught us, polite conventions are a weak foundation for a democracy… imagine what a conspiracy theorist monarch could do if they worked with domestic fringe politicians! https://web.archive.org/web/19991009163331/http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/cabinet/manual/intro.html https://web.archive.org/web/19991009163331/http://www.dpmc.g...

banannaise 2y ago

Every time this sort of discussion comes up, I think back to this satire article: Due to the country’s long history of human-rights violations, WWE cancels upcoming events in United States https://www.kayfabenews.com/due-to-the-countrys-long-history-of-human-rights-violations-wwe-cancels-upcoming-events-in-united-states/ https://www.kayfabenews.com/due-to-the-countrys-long-history... It's obviously worse in some places than others, but world governments are generally complicit and see it as a fair price to pay for continued economic partnership and/or military alliance.