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Wooden satellite heads to space in Mars exploration test
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoHow do you sufficiently sterilize wood to protect mars from contamination? I imagine this is less trivial than sterilizing metal, plastic, whatever other materials typically go into space-vehicle production.
- binarymax 2y agoI was thinking the same thing, and then I also thought - if the long term plans are colonization, is sterilization and non-contamination viable, or even desirable? While the missions remain scientific I absolutely agree contamination must be avoided. But as soon as we cross into the colony phase, wouldn’t that restriction just make things harder?
- multimoon 2y agoIf we’re into the colonization phase in the future we’ll be intentionally contaminating the planet trying to grow crops, so yes we’d be past that as a point of consideration.
- ryanmcbride 2y agosure but in the meantime, while we're still just studying, best to keep the petri dish uncontaminated
- ordu 2y ago> But as soon as we cross into the colony phase, wouldn’t that restriction just make things harder? I think not just harder, because the first colonies will enable scientists to study the pristine environment in more depth, while the colonies itself will be small and costs of a sterilization will be relatively low. So the onset of uncontrolled contamination should probably be delayed until well after the first colony.
- adrian_b 2y agoI assume that a combination of high temperature and irradiation should be effective. Wood should not be damaged by temperatures high enough to kill living cells and it provides negligible shielding for radiation. However, after sterilization it may require more care than metal, glass or plastic, to avoid any later contamination. Presumably all the assembly must be done in a sterile environment. Unlike metal or glass, which could be washed in oxidizing acids to remove organic substances, sterilized wood may contain dead bacterial cells in its pores. For satellites expected to burn on reentry that would not matter. For exploring other planets, that would be undesirable, as this could provide false positives for detectors of organic substances.
- dr_orpheus 2y ago> Wood should not be damaged by temperatures high enough to kill living cells Yep, in NASA's planetary protection guidelines they have bakeout timelines specified for microbial reduction at temperatures between 112C and 155C. There are a number of other cleaning and sterilization methods in there as well. [0] https://planetaryprotection.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/img/content/planetary-implementation-pub.pdf https://planetaryprotection.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/img/conte...
- nortlov 2y agoThe Polaris Dawn mission took a violin to orbit: https://www.thestrad.com/lutherie/how-do-you-take-a-violin-to-space-the-story-of-astronaut-sarah-gillis-and-her-violin/18772.article https://www.thestrad.com/lutherie/how-do-you-take-a-violin-t... In addition to vacuum exposure to address outgassing, they'd probably hit wood with some sterilization process (gamma radiation as one example) to ensure any microbes in the wood are dead before landing on another planet.
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- Glyptodon 2y agoI'm not sold that it's possible to do any form of colonization without some kind of eventual contamination.
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoColonization still seems decades if not centuries out.
- genter 2y agoI'm curious what an advanced alien species would think if they saw a wooden satellite. Would they be able to extract the DNA and think that it's something humans created, same as the code on the CPU? Or would they just think the wood is some type of synthetic like fiberglass?
- ryanmcbride 2y agoI wonder if they'd think the wooden ship _was_ the human, a la Species 8472
- snek_case 2y agoIMO it's likely that alien life would mirror the life we have here in a lot of ways. It's likely that aliens would have DNA or RNA, and would be made out of cells (unless they've become machines). So I think they would be pretty likely to understand what they are looking at given a bit of time for analysis. The reason aliens are likely to be made out of DNA and have cells is simply that those things tend to naturally come to exist in our universe. We don't really have any evidence that any other chemistry (e.g. silicon-based) can produce life in this universe. If DNA-based life comes about elsewhere in the universe, it won't look exactly like us, but that life is also likely to have both plants and animals, just because life tends to try to fill every available evolutionary niche.
- KineticLensman 2y ago> The reason aliens are likely to be made out of DNA and have cells is simply that those things tend to naturally come to exist in our universe. I think you are confusing carbon-based life with DNA-based life, for which N=1, the Earth. There is absolutely no evidence that DNA exists anywhere else. I'm prepared to accept the argument that carbon+water is a good basis for life, but this does not inevitably lead to DNA-based replicators.
- lazide 2y agoN=1 is a whole lot larger than N=0, eh?
- TruffleLabs 2y agoWooden spaceships has been part of some science fiction stories. https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/250692/disgusting-aliens-in-wooden-spaceships https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/250692/disgusting-...
- alanbernstein 2y agoSee also: Yggdrasill the tree-ship from Hyperion, and a similar idea from the movie The Fountain.
- JoeAltmaier 2y agoStage trees if I recall were the subject of a series of science fiction stories. They grew as boosters essentially, ignited at some point to launch and spread their seeds. If they grew for a long time without igniting, they might leave the planet. 'The Integral Trees' also had trees in space.
- jcl 2y agoThe unlikeliness of the wooden spaceship was one of my favorite parts of the sci-fi mystery/adventure game “The Outer Wilds”. (An indie gem…highly recommended, if you like puzzles or exploration.) https://www.mobiusdigitalgames.com/outer-wilds.html https://www.mobiusdigitalgames.com/outer-wilds.html
- EdwardDiego 2y agoThe original concept for Alien 3 had the prison being a wooden space monastery.
- gee_totes 2y agoYeah, this wooden satellite news is a big day for fans of that unmade concept -- there are dozens of us!
- KineticLensman 2y agoThere's precedent for wooden rockety things: the German WW2 Rheintochter, which had plywood control fins. Never went into space, obviously, but we sometimes forget now how useful wood can be. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheintochter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheintochter
- ashleyn 2y agoThere may be no air or water in space but there is radiation. Wouldn't that degrade the wood?
- lazide 2y agoOff gassing of volatiles and water would damage the wood too - wood has a lot of oil and other volatiles in it that help hold it together.
- m4rtink 2y agoIIRC some Chinese spy sats that still used photographic film to capture images used treated wood for the heat shield of the film return capsule. Not that special actually as IIRC treated cork has been used for spacecraft heat shielding quite regularly.
- hoseja 2y agoEven "advanced" heat shields are basically bakelite.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago> This will provide more people with the opportunity to develop amateur satellites at a lower cost. Maybe, not what is being reported by Sky News though - https://www.nanosats.eu/sat/lignosat https://www.nanosats.eu/sat/lignosat
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y agohttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/385493128_Space_exposure_test_of_hardwood_specimens_in_the_International_Space_Station https://www.researchgate.net/publication/385493128_Space_exp...
- jcl 2y agoI wasn’t sure what the article meant by “no screws or glue”, when the photograph appears to have visible screws. But closer images show that these are apparently some sort of rivet? I found a (Japanese-language-only) news piece that shows some of the crafting and assembly of the satellite, and the box body certainly holds together by itself, via some beautifully intricate joinery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_F-NzzC7RA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_F-NzzC7RA
- noman-land 2y agoThe Japanese and amazing joinery, name a better combo. So delightful.
- teucris 2y agoSite with some photos: https://www.nanosats.eu/sat/lignosat https://www.nanosats.eu/sat/lignosat
- sithadmin 2y agoIt looks like there's a metal(?) frame with rivets, screws used to secure internal electronic components, and the internal wood 'body' seems to be assembled with fastener-less joinery. There are some photos of the cubesat without the frame here: https://www.infoespacial.com/texto-diario/mostrar/4304727/japon-exito-pruebas-satelite-madera-2024 https://www.infoespacial.com/texto-diario/mostrar/4304727/ja...
- teeray 2y agoI kinda want a Norm Abram PBS special on wood satellite crafting techniques
- jaysonelliot 2y agoI'm confused by this statement in the article: << LignoSat is made of honoki, a kind of magnolia tree native to Japan, and has been made using a traditional Japanese technique without screws or glue. >> From photos I've seen while searching for more information, it does appear that there's a wooden core structure that is joined without fasteners. But it's then given a metal exoskeleton and what certainly appears to be metal fasteners. I'd like to understand whether the goal is to create satellites without metal, as the article seemed to imply.
- spacemark 2y agoIt's not, this is all internet click bait sensational stuff. Wood can be an effective composite and has been used in space vehicles for at least 40 years. First time I saw it used was old LV fairings. These days there are much better composites available so the use of wood is likely for non-technical reasons.
- teucris 2y agoThis is meant to show that the housing can be made of wood, but the antennae and electronics still require mounting points via metal or plastic fasteners. The article gives a few reasons why this might be valuable, eg fewer toxins released during burnup, but I see this as an experiment in alternative manufacturing techniques, to see what we might be missing when we assume things like this need to be made out of metal and bolts.
- Suppafly 2y ago>but I see this as an experiment in alternative manufacturing techniques, to see what we might be missing when we assume things like this need to be made out of metal and bolts. That's an optimistic view, I suspect it's just done to get people talking about it and to contrast the traditional joinery against the technology. There isn't likely to be any criteria by which wood is the best material to use for something like this.
- hinkley 2y agoNot just mounting points but a common ground.
- mrweasel 2y agoWhy? To ensure that it's biodegradable? I can see the idea of build with wood as a part of colonisation, assuming that we can make trees grow. That would still mean seeding a forest 30 - 50 year (or more), before humans arrive. It seems like it might be faster to start extracting metals, or make some type of concrete. That is especially true if the forest needs human intervention to grow and produce usable timber.
- Shawnj2 2y agoWeight reduction would be a serious benefit if this actually works
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- NBJack 2y agoThis is assuming said trees could even grow in such a different environment. I'd be surprised of they get far, given that even with the right nutrients and sunlight, there's still the matter of gravitropism for the plant to 'sense' how to grow correctly.
- onlypassingthru 2y agoAny woodworkers know what species of wood was used? 'Hinoki' is a widely used Japanese cypress but the English articles all say it's a 'honoki' magnolia?
- Loughla 2y agoIt's a magnolia. Magnolia hypoleuca or I think it's also called Japanese large-leaf magnolia. I've used it for knife handles. It's light and strong, so that makes sense for this use case.
- mannyv 2y agoWill it crack when all the water etc gets pulled out of it?
- hinkley 2y agoBy the time this goes into space the water content is likely dictated by the humidity at the launch site. I'm sure this is kiln dried so the organic volatiles have been mostly driven off.
- nopelynopington 2y agoI accidentally visited this from a browser with no adblocker and outbrain clickbait has become comically weird. I was shown what appears to be AI generated video clips of a bear walking through a children's hospital ward, presented as a story about something that happened in my area (Ireland has no bears). I refreshed and was shown the same story but this time it was a wolf. This was side by side with the usual midjourney images as dating site profiles, and weird fabricated medical stuff. They really have gone off the deep end.
- DecoPerson 2y agoOuter Wilds was accurate! Wooden spaceships, helmets, and other contraptions, augmented with metals and… other “spoiler” materials. To anyone interested in space with a day or two to spare, I highly recommend playing Outer Wilds. It’s very good and unlike any other game (and I can’t explain why without spoiling the magic).