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> which doesn't seem to have worked anywhere Well by definition it has worked in all other cases that you have not listed. Also you can't expect terrorist orga

> which doesn't seem to have worked anywhere Well by definition it has worked in all other cases that you have not listed. Also you can't expect terrorist organizations to behave rationally (on a state/geopolitical level) and pretty much all Middle Eastern countries (besides Iran and they aren't 100% committed either) came to terms with the fact that Israel does and will continue to exist. Did that happen due to ideological factors? I'd say that Russia is the only actual valid example and the economic outcome remains to be seen (unfortunately Russia has been doing remarkable well economically so far..).

spwa4 2y ago
If that's your measurement stick why aren't Iran and Afghanistan counted? You can't dismiss whole countries as terrorist organizations, no matter how they behave (China is at least as bad as Iran, for example, they also run a hostage taking business, and only difference in weaponry is that China actually rapidly succeeded in their nuclear program, which the world then proceeded to totally ignore and refuse to discuss. In Iran there seems to at least be the option of preventing them from going nuclear). Also in both countries both the people that got into power created an economic disaster coming into power, including for 99% of their own faction (everyone except the leadership). Even their competitors, in both countries I believe that means communists, would have created an economic disaster. So it wasn't the taliban or mullahs per se that did it, well it was, but it would have happened due to other ideological reasons than the ideology that won out anyway.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > aren't Iran Iran's position is ambiguous, though. There is no evidence that they'd be willing to engage in any full-scale conflict. If it was purely ideological they'd be doing much more than they are doing now. e.g. Hamas is seemingly willing to see Gaza razed to the ground and with a significant proportion of its population killed than concede anything (no semi rational state behaves that way). Afghanistan is economically insignificant.
  - spwa4 2y ago
    This assumes they can do more than they're doing now (without immediately losing control). Frankly, after Russia demonstrated how well they can defend their own border, I'm not nearly as willing to believe states making threats ...

spwa4 2y ago

If that's your measurement stick why aren't Iran and Afghanistan counted? You can't dismiss whole countries as terrorist organizations, no matter how they behave (China is at least as bad as Iran, for example, they also run a hostage taking business, and only difference in weaponry is that China actually rapidly succeeded in their nuclear program, which the world then proceeded to totally ignore and refuse to discuss. In Iran there seems to at least be the option of preventing them from going nuclear). Also in both countries both the people that got into power created an economic disaster coming into power, including for 99% of their own faction (everyone except the leadership). Even their competitors, in both countries I believe that means communists, would have created an economic disaster. So it wasn't the taliban or mullahs per se that did it, well it was, but it would have happened due to other ideological reasons than the ideology that won out anyway.

Wytwwww 2y ago
> aren't Iran Iran's position is ambiguous, though. There is no evidence that they'd be willing to engage in any full-scale conflict. If it was purely ideological they'd be doing much more than they are doing now. e.g. Hamas is seemingly willing to see Gaza razed to the ground and with a significant proportion of its population killed than concede anything (no semi rational state behaves that way). Afghanistan is economically insignificant.
- spwa4 2y ago
  This assumes they can do more than they're doing now (without immediately losing control). Frankly, after Russia demonstrated how well they can defend their own border, I'm not nearly as willing to believe states making threats ...