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I think the best analogy to American-European identity is: there exists a certain class of well-off, well-traveled people that indeed thinks of themselves as be

I think the best analogy to American-European identity is: there exists a certain class of well-off, well-traveled people that indeed thinks of themselves as being more European than [nationality], and they tend to be centered in the Netherlands, Belgium, etc. and radiating outward from there. However is is a very small group and probably about the same size as the group of people that live in both New York and Florida/California and think of themselves as not really a “local” (in the negative sense, from their perspective) of either place. The average person in Europe absolutely doesn’t think of themselves as being a member of Europe first and [country] second, and I think people would be surprised how actual little interaction and cross-language discussion there is between say, France and Poland, even though both are in the EU. There is much more of a French cultural universe, German cultural universe, Polish cultural universe, etc. The current structure of the EU pretty much caters entirely to that first group identifying as European first (at least in an identity-forming sense - I don’t mean economically) and so the prospect of a bloc-wide identity like “American” is in America seems extremely unlikely to me. In fact I think they are closer to being Americanized culturally than Europeanized.

raxxorraxor 2y ago
Even people very convinced of the EU don't really think of themselves as European first. Try to ask them where they come from when the EU is not a topic and you get the real answer. There is no overreaching European media that could form stronger bonds. Cultures and languages are too diverse and that is probably the main difference to the US.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  I think there is thinking of European as continent level. That is Europeans are not say Asian or African, or neither Americans. So at global scale, we are one group distinct from other continentals groups. If those continents even have any shared belonging in a group. But we certainly are not them.
lifestyleguru 2y ago
> there exists a certain class of well-off, well-traveled people that indeed thinks of themselves as being more European than [nationality], and they tend to be centered in the Netherlands, Belgium Ah yeah, the "Trust Fund, 6’5, Blue Eyes" blokes and their fiancees. Hopefully they'll choke with Masdaamer during techno party on their yachts.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
Even the ruling elite consider themselves French/German/etc first but it is fashionable to publicly claim otherwise. The EU is good at projecting an image but behind the scene it is a ferocious power struggle among member states that boils down to relative power (hence Germany tends to win, especially since Brexit) as it has always been.
- keiferski 2y ago
  True but I am thinking more of their children that have grown up in the last ~30 years in this bloc-wide EU project, and less their parents currently in power. Basically people that read Monocle magazine.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    That still very much not the case. Young people tend to be naive, that's different, but even that is a bit cliche: For instance in France the proportion of young people who vote RN/Le Pen (so more eurosceptic and nationalist) is in line with the national average. So overall I'd say age does not matter, how people benefit matters more, at least on the surface.
    - keiferski 2y ago
      In my original comment I said it’s a very small specific group, so it by definition isn’t in line with general trends. I’m talking about a small group of well-off Europeans that grew up traveling and living all around Europe; not the average young person in France.
ttepasse 2y ago
I'm always surprised that people see multilayered identities as something that you have to divide into first and second or prioritise among them. In a smaller context: Being German and NRW'ler and in the Ruhr area are not a hierarchy. I don't have to choose between them. Similar to European: Although I'm not well-off, it's just part of the pudding. In Computer terms: Identities seem for me less that a directory hierarchy, more like labels or tags.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Even people very convinced of the EU don't really think of themselves as European first. Try to ask them where they come from when the EU is not a topic and you get the real answer. There is no overreaching European media that could form stronger bonds. Cultures and languages are too diverse and that is probably the main difference to the US.

Ekaros 2y ago
I think there is thinking of European as continent level. That is Europeans are not say Asian or African, or neither Americans. So at global scale, we are one group distinct from other continentals groups. If those continents even have any shared belonging in a group. But we certainly are not them.

lifestyleguru 2y ago

> there exists a certain class of well-off, well-traveled people that indeed thinks of themselves as being more European than [nationality], and they tend to be centered in the Netherlands, Belgium Ah yeah, the "Trust Fund, 6’5, Blue Eyes" blokes and their fiancees. Hopefully they'll choke with Masdaamer during techno party on their yachts.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

Even the ruling elite consider themselves French/German/etc first but it is fashionable to publicly claim otherwise. The EU is good at projecting an image but behind the scene it is a ferocious power struggle among member states that boils down to relative power (hence Germany tends to win, especially since Brexit) as it has always been.

keiferski 2y ago
True but I am thinking more of their children that have grown up in the last ~30 years in this bloc-wide EU project, and less their parents currently in power. Basically people that read Monocle magazine.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  That still very much not the case. Young people tend to be naive, that's different, but even that is a bit cliche: For instance in France the proportion of young people who vote RN/Le Pen (so more eurosceptic and nationalist) is in line with the national average. So overall I'd say age does not matter, how people benefit matters more, at least on the surface.
  - keiferski 2y ago
    In my original comment I said it’s a very small specific group, so it by definition isn’t in line with general trends. I’m talking about a small group of well-off Europeans that grew up traveling and living all around Europe; not the average young person in France.

ttepasse 2y ago

I'm always surprised that people see multilayered identities as something that you have to divide into first and second or prioritise among them. In a smaller context: Being German and NRW'ler and in the Ruhr area are not a hierarchy. I don't have to choose between them. Similar to European: Although I'm not well-off, it's just part of the pudding. In Computer terms: Identities seem for me less that a directory hierarchy, more like labels or tags.