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Imagine being outraged your grandparents managed to actually retire in a forum that very nearly worships a couple of guys that could purchase Utah. I'd consider

Imagine being outraged your grandparents managed to actually retire in a forum that very nearly worships a couple of guys that could purchase Utah. I'd consider reviewing the holdings of the 780ish billionaires currently residing in the US before declaring a generational issue.

whatever1 2y ago
Ok let’s entertain this idea that the billionaires are the core of the problem. Total wealth of 800 billionaires is around $7T. The housing real estate market in the US (not counting commercial) is around $50T. So I guess they play a role but even if we erased them we would still be in the same spot.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  I'm not as convinced. A quick glance at the numbers doesn't factor for the outsized influence oligarch-class real estate developers have on legislative processes. Consider the frequency with which the state legislature here signs off on infrastructure and beach replenishment projects that explicitly and solely service the most expensive coastal development projects in the state. They've literally greenlit coastal overdevelopment to the point that the bulk of the state's shellfish industry has gone bankrupt as once-viable commercial beds have become inundated with surface and septic tank runoff to the point they are no longer safe for human consumption. This in the face of decades of protests by middle and working class folks on the coast. Then there's the billions of dollars worth of public funds that have been tossed at the same developers for "mixed use" urban high-rises in all of the largest cities in the state. Without exception these projects were billed as targeting the housing crisis to generate positive column inches. The actual net result is three quarters of a million dollar condos, rent and property prices downtown tripling over the course of 18 months, and a massive wave of local businesses filing for bankruptcy in the face of unsustainable rent increases, all of which has exacerbated the problems it was claimed were being addressed. Lastly there's the rash of 300+ unit suburban hellscape subdivisions that are popping up like mushrooms in what was once quiet rural corners of the county. I am absolutely dead-ass certain that 100% of the existing residents of those areas would have had those projects halted in the planning phase if they had any way to do so.
missedthecue 2y ago
Jeff Bezos owning 10% of Amazon really has nothing to do with the massive issue of entrenched institutional NIMBYism. San Francisco built 74 new units of housing last year. Not 74,000. Seventy four. We could kill all billionaires and housing would not get cheaper in a world like that.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Exactly: the billionaires aren't the problem here, it's the middle-class NIMBY homeowners who refuse to allow any new construction near them.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    At what point do you just call that illegal cartel behavior?
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      When they've captured the local government, you don't.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    Middle-class NIMBY homeowners have literally zero meaningful input into zoning and permitting processes. At the absolute peak of their power they can show up to public hearings and whinge into a microphone for 3 minutes, an activity that planning boards and city councils around the country are perfectly happy to ignore.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      If city councils and planning boards ignore them, they promptly get voted out of office. The NIMBYs are more reliable voters than anyone else.
      - forgetfreeman 2y ago

whatever1 2y ago

Ok let’s entertain this idea that the billionaires are the core of the problem. Total wealth of 800 billionaires is around $7T. The housing real estate market in the US (not counting commercial) is around $50T. So I guess they play a role but even if we erased them we would still be in the same spot.

forgetfreeman 2y ago
I'm not as convinced. A quick glance at the numbers doesn't factor for the outsized influence oligarch-class real estate developers have on legislative processes. Consider the frequency with which the state legislature here signs off on infrastructure and beach replenishment projects that explicitly and solely service the most expensive coastal development projects in the state. They've literally greenlit coastal overdevelopment to the point that the bulk of the state's shellfish industry has gone bankrupt as once-viable commercial beds have become inundated with surface and septic tank runoff to the point they are no longer safe for human consumption. This in the face of decades of protests by middle and working class folks on the coast. Then there's the billions of dollars worth of public funds that have been tossed at the same developers for "mixed use" urban high-rises in all of the largest cities in the state. Without exception these projects were billed as targeting the housing crisis to generate positive column inches. The actual net result is three quarters of a million dollar condos, rent and property prices downtown tripling over the course of 18 months, and a massive wave of local businesses filing for bankruptcy in the face of unsustainable rent increases, all of which has exacerbated the problems it was claimed were being addressed. Lastly there's the rash of 300+ unit suburban hellscape subdivisions that are popping up like mushrooms in what was once quiet rural corners of the county. I am absolutely dead-ass certain that 100% of the existing residents of those areas would have had those projects halted in the planning phase if they had any way to do so.

missedthecue 2y ago

Jeff Bezos owning 10% of Amazon really has nothing to do with the massive issue of entrenched institutional NIMBYism. San Francisco built 74 new units of housing last year. Not 74,000. Seventy four. We could kill all billionaires and housing would not get cheaper in a world like that.

shiroiushi 2y ago
Exactly: the billionaires aren't the problem here, it's the middle-class NIMBY homeowners who refuse to allow any new construction near them.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  At what point do you just call that illegal cartel behavior?
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    When they've captured the local government, you don't.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Middle-class NIMBY homeowners have literally zero meaningful input into zoning and permitting processes. At the absolute peak of their power they can show up to public hearings and whinge into a microphone for 3 minutes, an activity that planning boards and city councils around the country are perfectly happy to ignore.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    If city councils and planning boards ignore them, they promptly get voted out of office. The NIMBYs are more reliable voters than anyone else.
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago