4 ms·

I bet it's less of a RAM issue, and more of an orchestration problem. Making sure you have the latest version of every microservice and it's configuration. "Oh

I bet it's less of a RAM issue, and more of an orchestration problem. Making sure you have the latest version of every microservice and it's configuration. "Oh it's not running locally, you need to also run service_18_v2.js, and include the right env variables"

skydhash 2y ago
This + k8s magic that seem to make thing coupled tighter.
- KronisLV 2y ago
  > This + k8s magic that seem to make thing coupled tighter. I think nobody really talks about this, but unless you have a docker-compose.yml that includes everything you need for local development, it's increasingly more likely that you'll end up coupling things to Kubernetes to such a degree that running without it (and its abstractions) will become more effort than a person can muster. So while people try to create services that are decoupled from one another, they end up instead coupling them to Kubernetes concepts and a service mesh, service discovery, configuration and secret management mechanisms, persistent storage abstractions and so on. Which you can obviously do if you want to, but which might make running things locally in a minimalistic fashion that much more complex. It's the same as with for example using a web server as a reverse proxy for my applications and ending up putting some logic in there (e.g. route rewrites, headers etc.) and then realizing that I must also run a similar web server locally for 1:1 compatibility because something like Vue dev server proxy to the locally running API won't be able to give me all that.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > I think nobody really talks about this, but unless you have a docker-compose.yml that includes everything you need for local development (...) Is this a problem? I mean, in this scenario docker compose serves two main purposes: launch a few mock services, and configure those services according to your needs. This means configuring them to consume services already deployed to a cloud environment of your choice. This is something you control. Then all that's left is the service (or set if services) you need to modify. You run those locally and configure them to consume a mix of the mocked services and the services deployed to a cloud environment. > (...) it's increasingly more likely that you'll end up coupling things to Kubernetes to such a degree that running without it (and its abstractions) will become more effort than a person can muster. That coupling can only happen if you intentionally add it yourself. If you need to run your services in isolation, you will be more mindful of the need to not introduce that sort of coupling.
justinclift 2y ago
No, it was definitely a ram issue in this case. The laptops had 16GB of ram, the maximum available at the time. With the java VM overhead that ran things straight into swap and then some. Running the dev environments remotely (or rewriting in Go) were the options being considered before the whole project was canned and people redistributed to other things.
- sdenton4 2y ago
  I do the great majority of my work on a beefy desktop with a phat GPU, which I mostly run via ssh and a browser.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Given some Kubernetes workloads, even writing everything in Assembly might not help.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
If you have to have the latest version etc of every microservice, it's a distributed monolith.
- consteval 2y ago
  Right, the crux here is bad architects are building distributed systems that are essentially monoliths. It's the worst of both worlds. You get none of the guarantees and visibility of a monolith, and you get all the friction of a distributed system.
  - themanmaran 2y ago
    This is the first time I've heard the term distributed monolith and it's just clicked that every microservice application I've worked on has been exactly that.

skydhash 2y ago

This + k8s magic that seem to make thing coupled tighter.

KronisLV 2y ago
> This + k8s magic that seem to make thing coupled tighter. I think nobody really talks about this, but unless you have a docker-compose.yml that includes everything you need for local development, it's increasingly more likely that you'll end up coupling things to Kubernetes to such a degree that running without it (and its abstractions) will become more effort than a person can muster. So while people try to create services that are decoupled from one another, they end up instead coupling them to Kubernetes concepts and a service mesh, service discovery, configuration and secret management mechanisms, persistent storage abstractions and so on. Which you can obviously do if you want to, but which might make running things locally in a minimalistic fashion that much more complex. It's the same as with for example using a web server as a reverse proxy for my applications and ending up putting some logic in there (e.g. route rewrites, headers etc.) and then realizing that I must also run a similar web server locally for 1:1 compatibility because something like Vue dev server proxy to the locally running API won't be able to give me all that.
- chipdart 2y ago
  > I think nobody really talks about this, but unless you have a docker-compose.yml that includes everything you need for local development (...) Is this a problem? I mean, in this scenario docker compose serves two main purposes: launch a few mock services, and configure those services according to your needs. This means configuring them to consume services already deployed to a cloud environment of your choice. This is something you control. Then all that's left is the service (or set if services) you need to modify. You run those locally and configure them to consume a mix of the mocked services and the services deployed to a cloud environment. > (...) it's increasingly more likely that you'll end up coupling things to Kubernetes to such a degree that running without it (and its abstractions) will become more effort than a person can muster. That coupling can only happen if you intentionally add it yourself. If you need to run your services in isolation, you will be more mindful of the need to not introduce that sort of coupling.

justinclift 2y ago

No, it was definitely a ram issue in this case. The laptops had 16GB of ram, the maximum available at the time. With the java VM overhead that ran things straight into swap and then some. Running the dev environments remotely (or rewriting in Go) were the options being considered before the whole project was canned and people redistributed to other things.

sdenton4 2y ago
I do the great majority of my work on a beefy desktop with a phat GPU, which I mostly run via ssh and a browser.
pjmlp 2y ago
Given some Kubernetes workloads, even writing everything in Assembly might not help.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

If you have to have the latest version etc of every microservice, it's a distributed monolith.

consteval 2y ago
Right, the crux here is bad architects are building distributed systems that are essentially monoliths. It's the worst of both worlds. You get none of the guarantees and visibility of a monolith, and you get all the friction of a distributed system.
- themanmaran 2y ago
  This is the first time I've heard the term distributed monolith and it's just clicked that every microservice application I've worked on has been exactly that.