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> China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good"

> China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. So was everything with Taiwan hunky dory when they were a murderous military dictatorship for all those decades[1]? I thought the under-mentioned beef China had with Taiwan was the fact that the ROC took (and retains to this day) all the priceless cultural artifacts. The CCP would like those back in order to tie themselves to China's history. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

sfmike 2y ago
Logically speaking if they weren't taken they would have been destroyed
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  How do you figure that? The CCP maintained a staggering number of historical and cultural artifacts for decades. What's so special about these that they would want to destroy them? Can you explain why you would view their destruction as logical? I understand the cultural revolution did result in the destruction of history but people seem to wildly overstate its extent.
- BartjeD 2y ago
  Because red guard destroyed them and hung the bourgeois trying to keep them safe. All the art in Beijing summer palace is fake. It got destroyed by these folk's. Same story all over China.
komali2 2y ago
> I thought the under-mentioned beef China had with Taiwan was the fact that the ROC took (and retains to this day) all the priceless cultural artifacts. The CCP would like those back in order to tie themselves to China's history. In doing so the ROC saved a great many artifacts of Chinese history. Many that remained within PRC territory were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. As for the modern era, I don't believe there's "beef" about cultural artifacts. The PRC and Taiwan exchange cultural artifacts for their respective museums: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7892178.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7892178.stm Now if we want to get into the real fun nitty gritty rumors we could talk about how the KMT may have brought over a lot of gold and hid it somewhere in Taiwan...
ruggeri 2y ago
> So was everything with Taiwan hunky dory when they were a murderous military dictatorship for all those decades[1]? It's good to remember that Taiwan's adoption of multiparty democracy is very recent, and that a one-party dictatorship preceded it. And of course the PRC has always had lots of reasons to want to take back Taiwan, regardless whether it fears that mainland Chinese might see the Taiwanese system as preferable to their own. But the gp's statement that Taiwan's example today threatens the raison d'être of PRC authoritarianism is also quite valid. PRC's authority does not rest alone on a monopoly of force and surveillance, but also reputation for stability and for organizing economic growth. Now PRC population is aging, growth is slowing and suffering from serious structural problems, economic management is becoming more centralized/ideological/less effective. A successful, freer counter-example of what a Chinese nation might look like is actually quite dangerous to the PRC. Likewise, I think this is exactly why the PRC has kneecapped democracy in Hong Kong.
- powerapple 2y ago
  Hong Kong was set as an example how Taiwan can be integrated as a separate economy, separate government and separate everything as long as it is part of China. The reason why it happened in Hong Kong was that the political movement was out of control, you have some members of the parliament saying "fuck China" when they swear to service during the ceremony. It is more about how Hong Kong sees China, not how China sees Hong Kong. China would be very happy to see Hong Kong works in the two system model. How China is thinking now is that, giving Hong Kong the freedom to operate does not work, the same apply to Taiwan. Most Chinese people have negative views on politicians, the multiparty democracy system in Taiwan is not seen as a positive thing to be honest.
  - dagenleg 2y ago
    This is straight up the official CCP party line you're repeating here. How Chinese people are somehow uniquely unsuited for democracy. The "multiparty democracy system in Taiwan is not seen as a positive thing" by whom? The Taiwanese? The election results from that country have shown quite the opposite.

sfmike 2y ago

Logically speaking if they weren't taken they would have been destroyed

PittleyDunkin 2y ago
How do you figure that? The CCP maintained a staggering number of historical and cultural artifacts for decades. What's so special about these that they would want to destroy them? Can you explain why you would view their destruction as logical? I understand the cultural revolution did result in the destruction of history but people seem to wildly overstate its extent.
BartjeD 2y ago
Because red guard destroyed them and hung the bourgeois trying to keep them safe. All the art in Beijing summer palace is fake. It got destroyed by these folk's. Same story all over China.

komali2 2y ago

> I thought the under-mentioned beef China had with Taiwan was the fact that the ROC took (and retains to this day) all the priceless cultural artifacts. The CCP would like those back in order to tie themselves to China's history. In doing so the ROC saved a great many artifacts of Chinese history. Many that remained within PRC territory were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. As for the modern era, I don't believe there's "beef" about cultural artifacts. The PRC and Taiwan exchange cultural artifacts for their respective museums: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7892178.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7892178.stm Now if we want to get into the real fun nitty gritty rumors we could talk about how the KMT may have brought over a lot of gold and hid it somewhere in Taiwan...

ruggeri 2y ago

> So was everything with Taiwan hunky dory when they were a murderous military dictatorship for all those decades[1]? It's good to remember that Taiwan's adoption of multiparty democracy is very recent, and that a one-party dictatorship preceded it. And of course the PRC has always had lots of reasons to want to take back Taiwan, regardless whether it fears that mainland Chinese might see the Taiwanese system as preferable to their own. But the gp's statement that Taiwan's example today threatens the raison d'être of PRC authoritarianism is also quite valid. PRC's authority does not rest alone on a monopoly of force and surveillance, but also reputation for stability and for organizing economic growth. Now PRC population is aging, growth is slowing and suffering from serious structural problems, economic management is becoming more centralized/ideological/less effective. A successful, freer counter-example of what a Chinese nation might look like is actually quite dangerous to the PRC. Likewise, I think this is exactly why the PRC has kneecapped democracy in Hong Kong.

powerapple 2y ago
Hong Kong was set as an example how Taiwan can be integrated as a separate economy, separate government and separate everything as long as it is part of China. The reason why it happened in Hong Kong was that the political movement was out of control, you have some members of the parliament saying "fuck China" when they swear to service during the ceremony. It is more about how Hong Kong sees China, not how China sees Hong Kong. China would be very happy to see Hong Kong works in the two system model. How China is thinking now is that, giving Hong Kong the freedom to operate does not work, the same apply to Taiwan. Most Chinese people have negative views on politicians, the multiparty democracy system in Taiwan is not seen as a positive thing to be honest.
- dagenleg 2y ago
  This is straight up the official CCP party line you're repeating here. How Chinese people are somehow uniquely unsuited for democracy. The "multiparty democracy system in Taiwan is not seen as a positive thing" by whom? The Taiwanese? The election results from that country have shown quite the opposite.