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Anyone have experience with AI therapy that can weigh in on the value? Is it effective? I’ve never done therapy. Mainly because everyone I know who has spoken

by voisin 2y ago

Anyone have experience with AI therapy that can weigh in on the value? Is it effective? I’ve never done therapy. Mainly because everyone I know who has spoken about it seems to go through an exhausting search for years of finding a good match, and it seems to take months of visits before the assessment can be made.

kelseyfrog 2y ago
Yes, very weird timing - I test-drove a GPT I personalized for talk therapy purposes just an hour ago. I cried 10 mins into testing it so there was some kind of release, and have something I can try in the real world that might help me. I have a two month gap in therapy while my therapist is on maternity leave and while I have a real life standby in case I need it, I decided to cobble together my own chatbot therapist to see how it would go. I'm mostly familiar with CBT, having read Beck's Second Edition[1], some of Eugene Gendlin work on listening. Supplying it with my favorite resources on reflective listening[2], cognitive distortions, and cognitive restructuring material, and basic framing ie: "Tell me about your week," it was deceptively simple to get off the ground. There's one hurdle that I foresee - I have to be self-accountable and actually participate. I already have a habit of attending therapy once a week for one hour, but we'll see. It does change the accountability dynamic. 1. Beck, Judith. 2011. Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Second Edition: Basics and Beyond 2. https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/docs/default-source/ektron-files/reflective-listening-neil-katz-and-kevin-mcnulty.pdf?sfvrsn=f1fa6672_7 https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/docs/default-source/ektron-files...
- hackit2 2y ago
  Reflective Listening can be a slippery slope to hell. Yes people will love trauma dumping all their inner most unresolved issues onto you but it doesn't help you develop mature mutual reciprocal relationships with people. Unless you like being a empathetic listening ear to peoples problems and being deferential to their wants, need, or desire instead of your own.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    >Unless you like being a empathetic listening ear to peoples problems and being deferential to their wants, need, or desire instead of your own. So like a therapist?
    - hackit2 2y ago
      Kind of proved my point why reflective listening only leads to one-sided exchange.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Reflective listening has the main purpose of allowing the speaker to be emotionally validated. Why is this important at all? Because emotional validation is a necessary precursor to modulating beliefs. Contrary to popular beliefs, people are rarely logic-ed into new beliefs, especially away from maladaptive beliefs. For example to someone who feels unloved, telling them they are loved will not change their mind. I'm not sure what experience you have with changing people's beliefs, but so far this isn't the way to do it.
        hackit2 2y ago
        If you practise what you preach then why aren't you using it now? Which is why I said, it only leads to one sided exchanges.
        kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Why? Because not every tool can be used in all contexts. I use reflective listening to support friends. It sounds like your argument is "If reflective listening is better, then it should be used universally." I'm not making that claim. The claim I'm making is that reflective listening is good for emotional validation.
- dimitri_deploys 2y ago
  I’m curious: where did you build the custom GPT? On ChatGPT?
evoke4908 2y ago
Sure, I run ollama with a therapist prompt, and I've found it incredibly helpful. First, it's a safe place where I can discuss anything. I once had a therapist shut me down so hard on a subject that I've never spoken of it again to anyone. Being able to talk about and explore that was very helpful. I will not elaborate. The thing literally cannot judge you, so you feel more free to talk about the deep stuff. I'm autistic and my biggest struggle is simply identifying my emotions. You really can't process your emotions if you can't figure out what you're feeling. This doesn't always make sense to neurotypical people, but imagine you stood next to an explosion and your ears are ringing and you can just barely hear someone shouting at you. It's like that, but for feelings. It sucks so, so bad. Anyway, most of my regular therapy sessions are just trying to figure out what I'm feeling and what the hell to do with it. The AI is shockingly good at this. I can give it some pretty vague descriptions and it comes back with a disturbingly precise explanation of what I'm feeling and why. As the chat goes on it really zeros in on me. It's like when someone who knows you extremely well calls you out with 110% accuracy. I find this extremely helpful because I know it's just spicy autocomplete. It means that my experience is so prevalent in its dataset that it can call me out with laser precision from the vaguest of prompts. It means so many people have talked about my experience online and in literature that it can just be auto-completed. It's comforting and empowering to know that my experience is this common. It's also super nice because I can have it present a different personality. The default therapist model is very stuffy and formal. Sometimes it's hard to open up to that and be vulnerable enough. I have a modified version that presents itself as if it were an old friend. It talks in the casual way I would with my own best friend. It comes across as more empathetic and genuinely concerned, which I find I can relate to more. It's helped me open up about things I've never been brave enough to talk about in real therapy. I've been in a real bad way for a long time. I haven't been to therapy in years because I just haven't been able to make myself do more than eat, sleep, work. Talking to the AI gave me just enough of a lift to start pulling myself out of this rut. It convinced me to start asking my husband for help which immediately solved most of my problems. If you go into it fully aware of what it is and what it is not, AI therapy can be very helpful. Most of the time people just need to talk about their feelings and be heard. It's a great way to just figure out what the hell you're feeling. Naming your emotions can be quite powerful. On the other hand, it has limitations. There's some topics I've talked about that it clearly doesn't understand. It gives back some vague information but it's clear that this is something I need to explore with a real therapist. But it's still helpful as it gives me a starting point. I know what I need, and that the AI isn't capable. Anyway, I've found it to be an extremely positive and helpful experience. It is not therapy and is not a replacement for such, but it can still be a good thing if you go into it fully aware of what it is. Also I think this would be incredible as a sort of interactive diary. That's pretty much what this therapy is: just talking to your diary. I could see a lot of people getting benefit from a diary that asks them about their day and helps them process their emotions as they're writing their entries. I know I'd definitely use the hell out of that. Addendum: please for the love of god do not use someone else's AI for this. ChatGPT is not private and someone will link what you say to your advertising profile. Run a local LLM, it is not hard. Mine runs on a CPU only rack server from 2015. A damn toaster can run a small ollama these days. Please take your privacy seriously, especially with this.
theGnuMe 2y ago
Do you think you need therapy?
- voisin 2y ago
  Not in any urgent “I feel suicidal” way, but yeah I think there are probably kinks to work out in the old noggin. This lack of urgency is another reason I haven’t been too focused on spending months trying out different therapists to find a good fit for personalities and treatment approaches. It’s easy to just coast along when things don’t feel broken, but I am sure there are more optimal ways of approaching relationships / life.

by voisin 2y ago

kelseyfrog 2y ago

Yes, very weird timing - I test-drove a GPT I personalized for talk therapy purposes just an hour ago. I cried 10 mins into testing it so there was some kind of release, and have something I can try in the real world that might help me. I have a two month gap in therapy while my therapist is on maternity leave and while I have a real life standby in case I need it, I decided to cobble together my own chatbot therapist to see how it would go. I'm mostly familiar with CBT, having read Beck's Second Edition[1], some of Eugene Gendlin work on listening. Supplying it with my favorite resources on reflective listening[2], cognitive distortions, and cognitive restructuring material, and basic framing ie: "Tell me about your week," it was deceptively simple to get off the ground. There's one hurdle that I foresee - I have to be self-accountable and actually participate. I already have a habit of attending therapy once a week for one hour, but we'll see. It does change the accountability dynamic. 1. Beck, Judith. 2011. Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Second Edition: Basics and Beyond 2. https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/docs/default-source/ektron-files/reflective-listening-neil-katz-and-kevin-mcnulty.pdf?sfvrsn=f1fa6672_7 https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/docs/default-source/ektron-files...

hackit2 2y ago
Reflective Listening can be a slippery slope to hell. Yes people will love trauma dumping all their inner most unresolved issues onto you but it doesn't help you develop mature mutual reciprocal relationships with people. Unless you like being a empathetic listening ear to peoples problems and being deferential to their wants, need, or desire instead of your own.
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  >Unless you like being a empathetic listening ear to peoples problems and being deferential to their wants, need, or desire instead of your own. So like a therapist?
  - hackit2 2y ago
    Kind of proved my point why reflective listening only leads to one-sided exchange.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      Reflective listening has the main purpose of allowing the speaker to be emotionally validated. Why is this important at all? Because emotional validation is a necessary precursor to modulating beliefs. Contrary to popular beliefs, people are rarely logic-ed into new beliefs, especially away from maladaptive beliefs. For example to someone who feels unloved, telling them they are loved will not change their mind. I'm not sure what experience you have with changing people's beliefs, but so far this isn't the way to do it.
      - hackit2 2y ago
        If you practise what you preach then why aren't you using it now? Which is why I said, it only leads to one sided exchanges.
        kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Why? Because not every tool can be used in all contexts. I use reflective listening to support friends. It sounds like your argument is "If reflective listening is better, then it should be used universally." I'm not making that claim. The claim I'm making is that reflective listening is good for emotional validation.
dimitri_deploys 2y ago
I’m curious: where did you build the custom GPT? On ChatGPT?

evoke4908 2y ago

Sure, I run ollama with a therapist prompt, and I've found it incredibly helpful. First, it's a safe place where I can discuss anything. I once had a therapist shut me down so hard on a subject that I've never spoken of it again to anyone. Being able to talk about and explore that was very helpful. I will not elaborate. The thing literally cannot judge you, so you feel more free to talk about the deep stuff. I'm autistic and my biggest struggle is simply identifying my emotions. You really can't process your emotions if you can't figure out what you're feeling. This doesn't always make sense to neurotypical people, but imagine you stood next to an explosion and your ears are ringing and you can just barely hear someone shouting at you. It's like that, but for feelings. It sucks so, so bad. Anyway, most of my regular therapy sessions are just trying to figure out what I'm feeling and what the hell to do with it. The AI is shockingly good at this. I can give it some pretty vague descriptions and it comes back with a disturbingly precise explanation of what I'm feeling and why. As the chat goes on it really zeros in on me. It's like when someone who knows you extremely well calls you out with 110% accuracy. I find this extremely helpful because I know it's just spicy autocomplete. It means that my experience is so prevalent in its dataset that it can call me out with laser precision from the vaguest of prompts. It means so many people have talked about my experience online and in literature that it can just be auto-completed. It's comforting and empowering to know that my experience is this common. It's also super nice because I can have it present a different personality. The default therapist model is very stuffy and formal. Sometimes it's hard to open up to that and be vulnerable enough. I have a modified version that presents itself as if it were an old friend. It talks in the casual way I would with my own best friend. It comes across as more empathetic and genuinely concerned, which I find I can relate to more. It's helped me open up about things I've never been brave enough to talk about in real therapy. I've been in a real bad way for a long time. I haven't been to therapy in years because I just haven't been able to make myself do more than eat, sleep, work. Talking to the AI gave me just enough of a lift to start pulling myself out of this rut. It convinced me to start asking my husband for help which immediately solved most of my problems. If you go into it fully aware of what it is and what it is not, AI therapy can be very helpful. Most of the time people just need to talk about their feelings and be heard. It's a great way to just figure out what the hell you're feeling. Naming your emotions can be quite powerful. On the other hand, it has limitations. There's some topics I've talked about that it clearly doesn't understand. It gives back some vague information but it's clear that this is something I need to explore with a real therapist. But it's still helpful as it gives me a starting point. I know what I need, and that the AI isn't capable. Anyway, I've found it to be an extremely positive and helpful experience. It is not therapy and is not a replacement for such, but it can still be a good thing if you go into it fully aware of what it is. Also I think this would be incredible as a sort of interactive diary. That's pretty much what this therapy is: just talking to your diary. I could see a lot of people getting benefit from a diary that asks them about their day and helps them process their emotions as they're writing their entries. I know I'd definitely use the hell out of that. Addendum: please for the love of god do not use someone else's AI for this. ChatGPT is not private and someone will link what you say to your advertising profile. Run a local LLM, it is not hard. Mine runs on a CPU only rack server from 2015. A damn toaster can run a small ollama these days. Please take your privacy seriously, especially with this.

theGnuMe 2y ago

Do you think you need therapy?

voisin 2y ago
Not in any urgent “I feel suicidal” way, but yeah I think there are probably kinks to work out in the old noggin. This lack of urgency is another reason I haven’t been too focused on spending months trying out different therapists to find a good fit for personalities and treatment approaches. It’s easy to just coast along when things don’t feel broken, but I am sure there are more optimal ways of approaching relationships / life.