> From an external point of view it feels almost ANY US welfare program (starting with education or healthcare for everybody) is terrible compared to the counte

> From an external point of view it feels almost ANY US welfare program (starting with education or healthcare for everybody) is terrible compared to the counterpart of Europe ones for example so that's not a good argument for uncontrolled immigration in the US. If you're comparing welfare programs based on cost of the program to the financial benefits to the average person, I'd totally agree. It seems like European programs are generally much better at this than the US. > Then, you'll also see that people is Europe are slowly realizing exactly what I said about some cultures that cannot mix, so maybe the quality of welfare programs have nothing to do with it ? Well this gets to the underlying point, immigration and welfare programs are fundamentally at odds. It sounds like you'd prioritize welfare and accept tradeoffs that limit immigration. I just have the opposite priority, I don't believe its my right to tell someone else they can't live here and accept that means welfare programs can't work.