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World’s oldest tree? Genetic analysis traces evolution of iconic Pando forest
- mobeets 2y agoThe fact that Pando is a single organism is so confusing to me. I’m guessing there are more forests like Pando that are also a single organism? Is this something unique to this particular species?
- edf13 2y agoJust think of it as the root system - the "trees" are all sprouting from that.
- torlok 2y agoBlack Locust can produce sprouts out of its root system, but from what I've read a single organism can cover up to 1ha, and the sprouts become independent eventually, so not exactly the same.
- jprd 2y agoThey are also wicked with thorns when young. Someone planted a few in the 70s around here (Pine Bush reserve in Upstate NY), and they won't go away. They thrive in the pine bush and steal from the native environment. Prescribed burns help on the reserve bits, but on the private properties surrounding it is a nightmare. The amount of scars I have from these invasive trees' thorns is nuts.
- nemo44x 2y agoSounds like rhizomes. These are not uncommon in plants. Bluegrass lawn for instance spreads this way. But yes I never imagined a similar thing with trees.
- Suppafly 2y agoI believe the difference is that rhizomes are special structures meant for reproduction, whereas with Pando and other quaking aspens, it's just normal tree roots that pop up near the surface and start growing into trees.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoPretty much all plants have similar abilities to reproduce clonally as a byproduct of how they grow. Normally we don't count the individuals as a collective organism the same way we do Pando though.
- sidewndr46 2y agoI thought the scientific consensus was Pando does not actually reproduce anymore and is shrinking
- AlotOfReading 2y agoI've never heard that. The aboveground stems of aspens live just over a century, so Pando would be dead very quickly (in relative terms) if that was true. I see some articles online that new shoots are struggling to survive because of herbivores though.
- sidewndr46 2y agoapparently I had it wrong. The net size is decreasing over time, but new shoots do still emerge and mature into healthy structures
- dreamcompiler 2y agoForest Service says it's showing signs of decline due to "... a lack of regeneration, along with insects and disease." https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/fishlake/home/?cid=STELPRDB5393641 https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/fishlake/home/?cid=STELPRDB53...
- Buttons840 2y agoYou seem to dismiss that Pando is uniquely special. The claim is that Pando is the oldest organism on Earth. Do you disagree? If so, what are some organisms that might be older?
- bloak 2y ago
- Gravityloss 2y agoThat also has made me wonder. If these are common but not generally mapped or surveyed, then it'd be likely this is not oldest etc...
- peterashford 2y agoYeah, I've noticed over the years a lot of articles about oldest, tallest, <maximum other dimension> trees and they're always in the US. Strikes me that there's a likely bias there - the biggest results occur where you're doing the most looking
- xattt 2y agoThe name Pando adds to the mystery of the organism. If it was called Fish Lake forest or something, it would be hard to draw any attention.
- space_oddity 2y agoPando has an almost mythical ring to it
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- cg5280 2y agoAll quaking aspens can reproduce through their roots systems (as well as by seeds); you typically see them as clusters in the forests they reside instead of peppered around like other trees. Pando is unique because it can only reproduce asexually as well as its huge size. Most aspen colonies are not nearly as big.
- Suppafly 2y ago>Pando is unique because it can only reproduce asexually Is that true? I've seen it mentioned in non-scientific articles, but have never seen anything scientific saying so. I'm not sure why Pando would be different from any other member of its species.
- dvh 2y agoJapanese knotweed in Europe
- Suppafly 2y ago>The fact that Pando is a single organism is so confusing to me. All of the tree stalks are connected to the same roots, so it's all one big organism.
- jboggan 2y agoIf you're ever in central Utah you should make the trip to see Pando, it grows beside Fish Lake which is teeming with life, and surrounded by beautiful hills and mountains that make for great campsite views. The lake is full of landlocked kokanee salmon that never see an ocean in their lifetime.
- space_oddity 2y agoHave you camped there?
- Forbo 2y agoI have twice, it's great. Highly recommend.
- space_oddity 2y agoMust be a special spot!
- borg16 2y agoi was once on a solo road trip. I took a turn by chance and ended up near this lake and saw the Pando being talked about here. Talk about coincidence!
- pfdietz 2y agoSome lakes like these have populations maintained by stocking. https://theonion.com/wildlife-officials-restock-lake-by-dropping-thousands-o-1847291583/ https://theonion.com/wildlife-officials-restock-lake-by-drop...
- jayrot 2y agoNature, uhh, finds a way.
- fritzo 2y agoTIL Pando is not just an especially large quaking aspen, but rather a triploid mutant that can reproduce only asexually.
- dvh 2y agoI once spoke with fish biologist about goldfish (or was it carasius? I don't remember), they reproduce via gynogenesis, it's like pathogenesis but they need some trigger like other fish spawning, and I said surely there must be some hidden pond in some misty mountains in China where there are still male goldfish. I asked him if he believe such hidden pond could exist somewhere and he said no and mumbled something about triploids. Scientists are not romantic.
- vanderZwan 2y agoThey're romantic until romanticism gets in the way of dispassionate interpretations of what the data tells them to be the most likely truth. Would you rather have them make stuff up and undermine the very purpose of their job?
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoI think there's a middle ground we call "the capacity for imagination", which can be both romantic and need not conflict with empirical analysis.
- vanderZwan 2y agoThe thing is, this story sounds like miscommunication/misremembering all-around because male goldfish do exist, and their "reproduction" section on wikipedia does not mention asexual reproduction at all[0]. Also, the wiki page on gynogenesis suggests that it specifically is a form of reproduction that still requires a male and a female, but that the male does not contribute any DNA to the offspring[1]. So male fish are required either way, although they are typically from an "adjacent" species. Searching the general internet just returns articles claiming goldfish can reproduce asexually, followed by another paragraph claiming they can't (proving to me that it's all AI generated bullshit). Not even going to link examples. Then, finally, Google Scholar points to two articles with the following titles: Genetic responses in sexual diploid and asexual triploid goldfish (Carassius auratus) introduced into a high-altitude environment and Genetic homeostasis and developmental stability in natural populations of bisexual (Carassius auratus) and unisexual (C. gibelio) goldfishes[2][3]. Reading those finally clarifies that goldfish (carassius auratus) are the diploid species that reproduces sexually, and the Prussian carp (carassius gibelio) being the adjacent triploid species that reproduces via gynogenesis, including by using sperm from goldfish. So if the question was interpreted as "could there still be male Prussian carp somewhere in the wild?" I'm guessing the answer was "no" because being a triploid that reproduces via gynogenesis seems to be a fundamental part what defines their classification as a separate species. Any hypothetical "diploid Prussian carp" would probably be labeled as different species altogether. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish#Reproduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish#Reproduction [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynogenesis [2] https://www.techrxiv.org/doi/full/10.22541/au.166859689.91177037 https://www.techrxiv.org/doi/full/10.22541/au.166859689.9117... [3] https://link.springer.com/article/10.3103/S0095452709050077 https://link.springer.com/article/10.3103/S0095452709050077 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_carp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_carp
- carom 2y agoThe oldest non-colonal tree is in California at 4800 some years old. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah_(pine_tree) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah_(pine_tree)
- Suppafly 2y agoAnyone know if you can get sprouts from Pando to start your own mini version?
- lialopx 2y agok
- lialopx 2y agohola?