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My sister just moved into a place that has an HOA. She's actively trying to get it suspended permanently. They live on a lake that attracts very aggressive Can

My sister just moved into a place that has an HOA. She's actively trying to get it suspended permanently. They live on a lake that attracts very aggressive Canadian geese. The geese do geese things like eat and poop lots of poop. The HOA fined them before they moved into the house for having goose poop in their back yard. For me, it's hilarious. I take handfuls of corn and stuff to throw around their backyard when I go visit. She has started a genuine campaign to have the HOA removed. She's so salty all the time now. It is top 10 things that has happened in my life.

searealist 2y ago
I don't want to live in a neighborhood where my neighbor's yards are full of poop. This is true even if the unit is unoccupied.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Goose poop is not very smelly since it's mostly fibre from their all-grass diet. It's not like a backyard full of dog poop. It's no worse than applying manure to fertilize the soil. Source: I've stepped in goose poop many, many times up here in Canada and it's the least bad poop to step in.
- AngryData 2y ago
  If a deer walks through your yard and poops in it do you go out there and pick it up? Like these are wild animals, they aren't talking about a someone raising geese or something. Wild animals poop, it will quickly disintegrate into the soil. At worst you might run a lawn mower over it to spread it out better.
  - searealist 2y ago
    Yes. It's your responsibility to maintain your property if you choose to live in an HOA.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      The HOAification of America has gone too far. There are some places where it's hard to find a home not subject to a HOA. I don't think "well live somewhere else" is a reasonable answer to that complaint. That's definitely a "I got mine, so eff off" sort of response.
      - searealist 2y ago
        Who wants to invest in a neighborhood that can be ruined by a few bad apples not maintaining their properties?
        iamevn 2y ago
        Why would people need to invest in a neighborhood? Houses are for living in.
        searealist 2y ago
        Because it is and always was a large purchase and you want it to maintain its value.
        dfadsadsf 2y ago
        Quality of your life depends not only on your house but also on houses around you. When I go out, I want to see nice, well maintained houses with no garbage outside. What happens without HOA in low middle class and poor areas are broken cars, garbage everywhere and unkempt lawn. In wealthy neighborhoods you generally do not need HOA as people maintain their property on their own.
      - kbelder 2y ago
        We were house-shopping a bit ago, and at one place while the realtor was showing us around there was a knocking at the door. The realtor answered it, and it was an older man, a neighbor, saying that one of our cars was partly off the pavement and on the gravel in the driveway, and that it wasn't allowed. We needed to move our car, we were breaking the rules. Realtor looked at us. "You're probably not interested in this house, right?" Nope. She read us right. We would never live in a place under the thumb of an HOA.
- kelnos 2y ago
  You're definitely not the kind of neighbor I'd like to have. Animals poop. That's life.
  - searealist 2y ago
    Then don't move into an HOA? Some of us have standards: no cars, poop, or weeds on lawns.
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      There are now places where everything is in an HOA. That's gotta suck for folks who have to live there because of work or other commitments.
    - consteval 2y ago
      I don't understand why people believe their standards should apply to other people's property. I don't get why you simply being near them in proximity means you believe you're entitled to control over their land. We've let residential property as an investment go waaaaay too far. And now we have little suburban dictators running around everywhere enforcing whatever the fuck they want, to protect their investment.
      - Loughla 2y ago
        I live in rural America specifically because I can do whatever I want to with my property without some retired busybody up my ass. Spoiler: my property isn't a mess and the house is well kept. Because it's better for me that way. But I can also build a small shed if I feel like it without worrying about other people. And I can pee outside on a tree. That's a bonus as well.
gosub100 2y ago
> The HOA fined them before they moved into the house for having goose poop in their back yard. It's not as dramatic as it sounds. the house was owned by _someone_ before they moved in. at _some_ point the guano was left and the HOA found it (whether that alleged violation cited done in a good-faith effort is irrelevant). The HOA applied their process, and at _some point_ ownership changed. Leaving your sister with the bill, which she is probably able to recover from the previous owners. HOA's are agreed to by the owners and they preserve the value of everyone's property and enforce common decency. (no trash, overgrown yards, RVs parked). I own a house under HOA and I get a letter or two per year about leaving the garage door open or the trash cans out too late. It's not a big deal and the neighborhood stays beautiful and desirable.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  HOAs’ most redeeming feature is they serve to coarsely segregate people who like to live under HOAs from people who don’t.
  - gosub100 2y ago
    not really, judging by the amount of people who live there and complain about them anyways.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      It is often impossible to find a good option anymore.
    - jrs235 2y ago
      "coarsely". They also seen to identify folls that sign contracts without actually reading them.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > Leaving your sister with the bill, which she is probably able to recover from the previous owners. That depends, really. If the unpaid HOA fine was disclosed during the buying process, and the buyer didn't make it a condition of sale that the seller had to cover it, then the buyer is responsible. If the seller didn't disclose it, then the buyer can of course sue the seller, but depending on the magnitude of the fine, it might be easier and less stressful to just pay it. > HOA's are agreed to by the owners and they preserve the value of everyone's property and enforce common decency. In theory, yes. In practice, many HOAs are full of busybodies who enjoy the power trip and love to meddle in how other people live their lives. Even in the absence of that, like any institution, the people who are a part of them and subject to them often disagree on the fine details. For example, I'm not convinced it's fair that an elected board of homeowners gets to decide things like what color the curtains on the inside of your windows facing the street are allowed to be. But many HOAs have restrictions on that. I suspect you might think that such a restriction is fine, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make: people don't always agree, but everyone ends up being subject to whatever the board/majority decides. I don't think we should allow these mini-governments to be able to enact property restrictions that actual governments wouldn't be allowed to do. My latest fun letter from our HOA was that the paint on some air vents on our roof had faded and no longer matched the color of the roof, and we'd be fined if I didn't have them repainted. What a huge waste of time and money, both for me and for whatever busybody was paid (yes, paid) to drive around the neighborhood looking for these things. As an amusing aside: not long ago I read of a case where a homeowner had been parking his boat in his driveway for some very long time (like more than a decade), but suddenly the HOA decided to enforce a provision about that not being allowed. Boats had to be put behind some sort of opaque fence or partition, so they're not visible from the street. So he built the fence, parked his boat behind it, and had an artistic neighbor friend paint a mural... of his boat... on the outside of the fence. Loved that.
mywittyname 2y ago
My HOA is worded such that it must exist for at least 30 years and there are no facilities to dissolving it before that time (after that time, a simple majority can vote to dissolve it, so long as the city agrees to incorporate the land and infrastructure). In this case, it's because the HOA is responsible for the loans taken out and long term leases to manage the sub division's infrastructure. And yes, geese love to poop everywhere.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > My HOA is worded such that it must exist for at least 30 years and there are no facilities to dissolving it before that time Technically, there are. Lack of an explicit termination clause doesn't mean an agreement can't be terminated. But the party that would object to that termination is the lender. If you had their sign off, you could dissolve the HOA today.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I was assuming that too. At the very least, the CC&Rs/by-laws could be amended to remove that clause. But, right, presumably the lender is a party to the agreements with enough power to vote down that change.
kelnos 2y ago
> I take handfuls of corn and stuff to throw around their backyard when I go visit. Wow, it's a wonder your sister hasn't stopped inviting you over.
- Loughla 2y ago
  I'm very handy, so she has me do things around the house. I don't charge for labor, because she's family and because her hatred for the HOA is only surpassed by her hatred for the geese so it's hilarious. Also I'm sneaky as all get out. I'm not sure she has figured it out yet.

searealist 2y ago

I don't want to live in a neighborhood where my neighbor's yards are full of poop. This is true even if the unit is unoccupied.

AlexandrB 2y ago
Goose poop is not very smelly since it's mostly fibre from their all-grass diet. It's not like a backyard full of dog poop. It's no worse than applying manure to fertilize the soil. Source: I've stepped in goose poop many, many times up here in Canada and it's the least bad poop to step in.
AngryData 2y ago
If a deer walks through your yard and poops in it do you go out there and pick it up? Like these are wild animals, they aren't talking about a someone raising geese or something. Wild animals poop, it will quickly disintegrate into the soil. At worst you might run a lawn mower over it to spread it out better.
- searealist 2y ago
  Yes. It's your responsibility to maintain your property if you choose to live in an HOA.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    The HOAification of America has gone too far. There are some places where it's hard to find a home not subject to a HOA. I don't think "well live somewhere else" is a reasonable answer to that complaint. That's definitely a "I got mine, so eff off" sort of response.
    - searealist 2y ago
      Who wants to invest in a neighborhood that can be ruined by a few bad apples not maintaining their properties?
      - iamevn 2y ago
        Why would people need to invest in a neighborhood? Houses are for living in.
        searealist 2y ago
        Because it is and always was a large purchase and you want it to maintain its value.
        dfadsadsf 2y ago
        Quality of your life depends not only on your house but also on houses around you. When I go out, I want to see nice, well maintained houses with no garbage outside. What happens without HOA in low middle class and poor areas are broken cars, garbage everywhere and unkempt lawn. In wealthy neighborhoods you generally do not need HOA as people maintain their property on their own.
    - kbelder 2y ago
      We were house-shopping a bit ago, and at one place while the realtor was showing us around there was a knocking at the door. The realtor answered it, and it was an older man, a neighbor, saying that one of our cars was partly off the pavement and on the gravel in the driveway, and that it wasn't allowed. We needed to move our car, we were breaking the rules. Realtor looked at us. "You're probably not interested in this house, right?" Nope. She read us right. We would never live in a place under the thumb of an HOA.
kelnos 2y ago
You're definitely not the kind of neighbor I'd like to have. Animals poop. That's life.
- searealist 2y ago
  Then don't move into an HOA? Some of us have standards: no cars, poop, or weeds on lawns.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    There are now places where everything is in an HOA. That's gotta suck for folks who have to live there because of work or other commitments.
  - consteval 2y ago
    I don't understand why people believe their standards should apply to other people's property. I don't get why you simply being near them in proximity means you believe you're entitled to control over their land. We've let residential property as an investment go waaaaay too far. And now we have little suburban dictators running around everywhere enforcing whatever the fuck they want, to protect their investment.
    - Loughla 2y ago
      I live in rural America specifically because I can do whatever I want to with my property without some retired busybody up my ass. Spoiler: my property isn't a mess and the house is well kept. Because it's better for me that way. But I can also build a small shed if I feel like it without worrying about other people. And I can pee outside on a tree. That's a bonus as well.

gosub100 2y ago

> The HOA fined them before they moved into the house for having goose poop in their back yard. It's not as dramatic as it sounds. the house was owned by _someone_ before they moved in. at _some_ point the guano was left and the HOA found it (whether that alleged violation cited done in a good-faith effort is irrelevant). The HOA applied their process, and at _some point_ ownership changed. Leaving your sister with the bill, which she is probably able to recover from the previous owners. HOA's are agreed to by the owners and they preserve the value of everyone's property and enforce common decency. (no trash, overgrown yards, RVs parked). I own a house under HOA and I get a letter or two per year about leaving the garage door open or the trash cans out too late. It's not a big deal and the neighborhood stays beautiful and desirable.

sokoloff 2y ago
HOAs’ most redeeming feature is they serve to coarsely segregate people who like to live under HOAs from people who don’t.
- gosub100 2y ago
  not really, judging by the amount of people who live there and complain about them anyways.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    It is often impossible to find a good option anymore.
  - jrs235 2y ago
    "coarsely". They also seen to identify folls that sign contracts without actually reading them.
kelnos 2y ago
> Leaving your sister with the bill, which she is probably able to recover from the previous owners. That depends, really. If the unpaid HOA fine was disclosed during the buying process, and the buyer didn't make it a condition of sale that the seller had to cover it, then the buyer is responsible. If the seller didn't disclose it, then the buyer can of course sue the seller, but depending on the magnitude of the fine, it might be easier and less stressful to just pay it. > HOA's are agreed to by the owners and they preserve the value of everyone's property and enforce common decency. In theory, yes. In practice, many HOAs are full of busybodies who enjoy the power trip and love to meddle in how other people live their lives. Even in the absence of that, like any institution, the people who are a part of them and subject to them often disagree on the fine details. For example, I'm not convinced it's fair that an elected board of homeowners gets to decide things like what color the curtains on the inside of your windows facing the street are allowed to be. But many HOAs have restrictions on that. I suspect you might think that such a restriction is fine, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make: people don't always agree, but everyone ends up being subject to whatever the board/majority decides. I don't think we should allow these mini-governments to be able to enact property restrictions that actual governments wouldn't be allowed to do. My latest fun letter from our HOA was that the paint on some air vents on our roof had faded and no longer matched the color of the roof, and we'd be fined if I didn't have them repainted. What a huge waste of time and money, both for me and for whatever busybody was paid (yes, paid) to drive around the neighborhood looking for these things. As an amusing aside: not long ago I read of a case where a homeowner had been parking his boat in his driveway for some very long time (like more than a decade), but suddenly the HOA decided to enforce a provision about that not being allowed. Boats had to be put behind some sort of opaque fence or partition, so they're not visible from the street. So he built the fence, parked his boat behind it, and had an artistic neighbor friend paint a mural... of his boat... on the outside of the fence. Loved that.

mywittyname 2y ago

My HOA is worded such that it must exist for at least 30 years and there are no facilities to dissolving it before that time (after that time, a simple majority can vote to dissolve it, so long as the city agrees to incorporate the land and infrastructure). In this case, it's because the HOA is responsible for the loans taken out and long term leases to manage the sub division's infrastructure. And yes, geese love to poop everywhere.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> My HOA is worded such that it must exist for at least 30 years and there are no facilities to dissolving it before that time Technically, there are. Lack of an explicit termination clause doesn't mean an agreement can't be terminated. But the party that would object to that termination is the lender. If you had their sign off, you could dissolve the HOA today.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I was assuming that too. At the very least, the CC&Rs/by-laws could be amended to remove that clause. But, right, presumably the lender is a party to the agreements with enough power to vote down that change.

kelnos 2y ago

> I take handfuls of corn and stuff to throw around their backyard when I go visit. Wow, it's a wonder your sister hasn't stopped inviting you over.

Loughla 2y ago
I'm very handy, so she has me do things around the house. I don't charge for labor, because she's family and because her hatred for the HOA is only surpassed by her hatred for the geese so it's hilarious. Also I'm sneaky as all get out. I'm not sure she has figured it out yet.