4 ms·

Behold: Market participants using government to disable other market participants.

by lotsofpulp 2y ago

coliveira 2y ago
You said well, market using government. The government is just a tool used by capitalists.
- db48x 2y ago
  Yea, I guess the communists and socialists and libertarians would all use different tools.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    I mean, if the libertarians are to be believed they'd use some combination of disapproving looks and hired mercenaries (depending on how married they claim to be to the NAP) to enforce their perceived rights given there'd be little or no government framework available to even define what those rights might be much less enforce them.
falcolas 2y ago
In this case since it's deed restrictions as part of the land/building sale it's not the government enforcing these restrictions, it's plain old contract law.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  The government enforces all contracts, by having the power to impose the consequences of violating contracts. In this case, the government is not doing its anti trust duties resulting in harm to the public.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    Perhaps it's just me, but I'm pretty glad that we don't have the government interfering with our every contracted act (a sale is such an act). On the flip side, without the government to enforce a contract one party has broken, there would be no reason to ever fulfill a contract - you'd have to rely on citizen's force, and history has not shown that it's been particularly good to rely on regular citizens.
class3shock 2y ago
Just because a legal mechanism exists (adding a restriction to a deed as part of a private sale) does not mean that its use is legal. This is not "using" the government to disable other market participants, this is illegally abusing the mechanism of a deed restriction to monopolize a market and extort people.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  > This is not "using" the government to disable other market participants, this is illegally abusing the mechanism of a deed restriction to monopolize a market and extort people. Betting on government inaction for breaking the law is still using the government. If it is illegal, then a competing grocery store should be able to open its doors and any lawsuits thrown out. Considering Albertsons’ and other grocery store’s lawyers are not willing to bet on this, it must be clearly illegal, which is again, a problem the government has to solve.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    the government doesn't go around enforcing contracts; the government provides a mechanism whereby a person who is wronged (by another party breaking their contract) can appeal and get some justice (without which you have the aggrieved party going over and shooting the other party). a competing company could open a store there anyway and then fight the battle in court; they might even win, but the cost of the court case would prevent most companies from even trying, after all groceries are a relatively low margin business--if this were a gold mine instead of grocery store you can be sure someone would have opened it already and fought it in court
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The government can also decree a simple ban on contracts that reduce competition. Similar to a ban on non compete contracts. Any contract that intends to reduce the amount of buyers or sellers could be made unenforceable.
  - class3shock 2y ago

Behold: Market participants using government to disable other market participants.

coliveira 2y ago

You said well, market using government. The government is just a tool used by capitalists.

db48x 2y ago
Yea, I guess the communists and socialists and libertarians would all use different tools.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  I mean, if the libertarians are to be believed they'd use some combination of disapproving looks and hired mercenaries (depending on how married they claim to be to the NAP) to enforce their perceived rights given there'd be little or no government framework available to even define what those rights might be much less enforce them.

falcolas 2y ago

In this case since it's deed restrictions as part of the land/building sale it's not the government enforcing these restrictions, it's plain old contract law.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
The government enforces all contracts, by having the power to impose the consequences of violating contracts. In this case, the government is not doing its anti trust duties resulting in harm to the public.
- falcolas 2y ago
  Perhaps it's just me, but I'm pretty glad that we don't have the government interfering with our every contracted act (a sale is such an act). On the flip side, without the government to enforce a contract one party has broken, there would be no reason to ever fulfill a contract - you'd have to rely on citizen's force, and history has not shown that it's been particularly good to rely on regular citizens.

class3shock 2y ago

Just because a legal mechanism exists (adding a restriction to a deed as part of a private sale) does not mean that its use is legal. This is not "using" the government to disable other market participants, this is illegally abusing the mechanism of a deed restriction to monopolize a market and extort people.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
> This is not "using" the government to disable other market participants, this is illegally abusing the mechanism of a deed restriction to monopolize a market and extort people. Betting on government inaction for breaking the law is still using the government. If it is illegal, then a competing grocery store should be able to open its doors and any lawsuits thrown out. Considering Albertsons’ and other grocery store’s lawyers are not willing to bet on this, it must be clearly illegal, which is again, a problem the government has to solve.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  the government doesn't go around enforcing contracts; the government provides a mechanism whereby a person who is wronged (by another party breaking their contract) can appeal and get some justice (without which you have the aggrieved party going over and shooting the other party). a competing company could open a store there anyway and then fight the battle in court; they might even win, but the cost of the court case would prevent most companies from even trying, after all groceries are a relatively low margin business--if this were a gold mine instead of grocery store you can be sure someone would have opened it already and fought it in court
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    The government can also decree a simple ban on contracts that reduce competition. Similar to a ban on non compete contracts. Any contract that intends to reduce the amount of buyers or sellers could be made unenforceable.
- class3shock 2y ago