5 ms·

I am going to be that person, but how is the copyright for the output of tools like this? Since not all websites include license on their site, yet their looks

by nicce 2y ago

I am going to be that person, but how is the copyright for the output of tools like this? Since not all websites include license on their site, yet their looks are replicated, this might be even less clear than with LLMs in general.

demarq 2y ago
Not sure what would be the difference between this and an “open source airtable/notion” etc
- nicce 2y ago
  This is completely different case, since extension probably reads content of the copyrighted website with a specific branding and tries to make similar looking version. If you use it, what are the limits of copyright laws for that output?
- szundi 2y ago
  The people at these open source alternative projects at least type in their version of the copycat designs/whatevers, not using a machine to style-by-style convert it to a component for them keeping everything that can be kept.
spmurrayzzz 2y ago
IANAL but my guess that the output seems likely to be considered a "derivative work" (referring to US law in this case). So you'd need prior authorization from the copyright holder in the absence of a license. "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, an adaptation of that work. The owner of a copyright is generally the author or someone who has obtained the exclusive rights from the author... The unauthorized adaptation of a work may constitute copyright infringement." [1] Some of the examples they give in the referenced document above are pretty close to what this tool outputs. e.g. "A new version of an existing computer program", "A revision of a website", "A drawing based on a photograph", etc [1] https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf
abstractspoon 2y ago
Interesting that the author of this extension has not commented on your question...
- alexdanilowicz 2y ago
  thanks for the callout — was taking me a second to respond because I wasn't 100% sure. It's a good question. I was actually trying to get the phone with a copyright lawyer to give an accurate answer. I believe (not a legal advice) it depends on the given website's terms of service. There's usually a "fair use" clause. Of course, if you do use the extension and you're reading this: don't use their own trademarks (like logos!) on your own site! Use our convert button and edit it to make it fully your own. There are many extensions that grab designs from any website (this is not new tech) - what's different about ours is that we convert it to a React component for the purpose of then editing it with AI to make it your own. I'll note it's against our Acceptable Use Policy to use it for impersonation / inauthentic behavior: https://www.magicpatterns.com/docs/documentation/legal/acceptable-use https://www.magicpatterns.com/docs/documentation/legal/accep...
  - KronisLV 2y ago
    Props for actually looking into it and giving an answer!
ysavir 2y ago
Judging by the opening post, the intention seems to be to use this on your own IP (hence them pointing out you can use it on localhost) to easily translate existing production material into Figma or similar tools where designers can then iterate on it, without having to replicate the existing interface pixel-for-pixel beforehand. So it's probably a very grey area to use this on other sites, but that's not the suggestion being made.
mrieck 2y ago
I am the maker of SnipCSS. https://www.snipcss.com https://www.snipcss.com Just like with other tools such as yt-dlp, the user is required to use it responsibly. As long as you don't copy text/images/svg, the only issue is going to be "trade dress" infringement since CSS styles are not copyrightable. (not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice) Strange that this post made it to HN because I'm also releasing a Tailwind conversion this week. https://x.com/SnipCSS/status/1853586090164420639 https://x.com/SnipCSS/status/1853586090164420639 I believe mine will be much better based on the blog post about this tool.
- nicce 2y ago
  > . As long as you don't copy text/images/svg, the only issue is going to be "trade dress" infringement since CSS styles are not copyrightable. (not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice) I am not lawyer as well, but this is highly unlikely true. It is like saying that C syntax is not copyrightable so I can took their code. What matters is the end result; what did you do with it? And particularly, is monetary gain involved? If you use tools like this to replicate innovative design, and you don't have permission to use it, it is much more complicated. Especially, if you use that in commercial setting.
ibejoeb 2y ago
I did almost exactly this job for a company recently. As far as I know, this is what killed the rollout.

by nicce 2y ago

demarq 2y ago

Not sure what would be the difference between this and an “open source airtable/notion” etc

nicce 2y ago
This is completely different case, since extension probably reads content of the copyrighted website with a specific branding and tries to make similar looking version. If you use it, what are the limits of copyright laws for that output?
szundi 2y ago
The people at these open source alternative projects at least type in their version of the copycat designs/whatevers, not using a machine to style-by-style convert it to a component for them keeping everything that can be kept.

spmurrayzzz 2y ago

IANAL but my guess that the output seems likely to be considered a "derivative work" (referring to US law in this case). So you'd need prior authorization from the copyright holder in the absence of a license. "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, an adaptation of that work. The owner of a copyright is generally the author or someone who has obtained the exclusive rights from the author... The unauthorized adaptation of a work may constitute copyright infringement." [1] Some of the examples they give in the referenced document above are pretty close to what this tool outputs. e.g. "A new version of an existing computer program", "A revision of a website", "A drawing based on a photograph", etc [1] https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

abstractspoon 2y ago

Interesting that the author of this extension has not commented on your question...

alexdanilowicz 2y ago
thanks for the callout — was taking me a second to respond because I wasn't 100% sure. It's a good question. I was actually trying to get the phone with a copyright lawyer to give an accurate answer. I believe (not a legal advice) it depends on the given website's terms of service. There's usually a "fair use" clause. Of course, if you do use the extension and you're reading this: don't use their own trademarks (like logos!) on your own site! Use our convert button and edit it to make it fully your own. There are many extensions that grab designs from any website (this is not new tech) - what's different about ours is that we convert it to a React component for the purpose of then editing it with AI to make it your own. I'll note it's against our Acceptable Use Policy to use it for impersonation / inauthentic behavior: https://www.magicpatterns.com/docs/documentation/legal/acceptable-use https://www.magicpatterns.com/docs/documentation/legal/accep...
- KronisLV 2y ago
  Props for actually looking into it and giving an answer!

ysavir 2y ago

Judging by the opening post, the intention seems to be to use this on your own IP (hence them pointing out you can use it on localhost) to easily translate existing production material into Figma or similar tools where designers can then iterate on it, without having to replicate the existing interface pixel-for-pixel beforehand. So it's probably a very grey area to use this on other sites, but that's not the suggestion being made.

mrieck 2y ago

I am the maker of SnipCSS. https://www.snipcss.com https://www.snipcss.com Just like with other tools such as yt-dlp, the user is required to use it responsibly. As long as you don't copy text/images/svg, the only issue is going to be "trade dress" infringement since CSS styles are not copyrightable. (not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice) Strange that this post made it to HN because I'm also releasing a Tailwind conversion this week. https://x.com/SnipCSS/status/1853586090164420639 https://x.com/SnipCSS/status/1853586090164420639 I believe mine will be much better based on the blog post about this tool.

nicce 2y ago
> . As long as you don't copy text/images/svg, the only issue is going to be "trade dress" infringement since CSS styles are not copyrightable. (not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice) I am not lawyer as well, but this is highly unlikely true. It is like saying that C syntax is not copyrightable so I can took their code. What matters is the end result; what did you do with it? And particularly, is monetary gain involved? If you use tools like this to replicate innovative design, and you don't have permission to use it, it is much more complicated. Especially, if you use that in commercial setting.

ibejoeb 2y ago

I did almost exactly this job for a company recently. As far as I know, this is what killed the rollout.