5 ms·

Low performance is an example of just cause. The employer simply has to prove that this was the case, and that they gave the employee notice, a chance to improv

by Timon3 2y ago

Low performance is an example of just cause. The employer simply has to prove that this was the case, and that they gave the employee notice, a chance to improve, and a reasonable standard to reach.

ta1243 2y ago
Problem is that require the employer to define what an acceptable level of performance is, and that's notoriously difficult So instead the choices tend to drift to "fire them on the manager's whim" or "practically impossible to get rid of short of murder"
- willsmith72 2y ago
  Who says it's notoriously difficult? I've worked many places with clear processes for identifying and resolving poor performance issues (firing being one possible resolution). That sounds like just your experience
  - ta1243 2y ago
    It's massively common, factors into the whole office/home debates that have been raging for 4 years https://www.apqc.org/blog/better-measurement-knowledge-worker-pickle https://www.apqc.org/blog/better-measurement-knowledge-worke... The crux of growth in knowledge workers is that our current norms of measurement and productivity were developed in a manufacturing or manual task-oriented mindset. According to Peter Drucker, productivity for knowledge workers needs a different set of considerations https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-hub/factsheets/8296-knowledge-work-practice-summary.pdf https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-... While in manual work the targets and outputs are usually clear, knowledge work and its results are less tangible, and therefore harder to define, measure and evaluate https://trepo.tuni.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/114586/palvalin_47.pdf?sequence=1 https://trepo.tuni.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/114586/palvalin... Drucker (1999) has even stated that knowledge worker productivity is the biggest challenge for modern work life. Other researchers have also discovered that the performance of an individual knowledge worker is the most important factor for organisational success... The need for general performance measurement is great as the theme is still quite new and there are very few previous studies measuring the effectiveness of NewWoW practices. There is also a need for practical tools for analysing and managing the performance of knowledge work from the NewWoW perspective. Organisations are still planning and making NewWoW changes, without clear evidence of their benefits and without any measurement information
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > Other researchers have also discovered that the performance of an individual knowledge worker is the most important factor for organisational success... Great, which means we have a way to measure individual performance with respect to what matters (organizational success). So what's the problem?
      - ta1243 2y ago
        No it doesn't, it means we need a reliable way to do it > Organisations are still planning and making NewWoW changes, without clear evidence of their benefits and without any measurement information
        deleted 2y ago
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        deleted 2y ago
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        randomdata 2y ago
        We have a reliable way to do it: The same way the researchers did when they showed that performance is the most important factor for organizational success. If your knowledge workers measure the same way the workers did in that research, you're golden. Unless you question the validity of the research? But if that's the case, why did you mention it as being significant in the first place?
    - didntcheck 2y ago
      > factors into the whole office/home debates that have been raging for 4 years Can you expand on that?
      - ta1243 2y ago
        Some claim that people are just as effective, or more effective, working at home. Others claim the same but from the office. Clearly if it was possible to measure effectiveness unambiguously this wouldn't be a debate.
- magneticnorth 2y ago
  If those are literally the only choices, then I vote for "practically impossible to get rid of." But I think this is a bit of hyperbole - some kind of ongoing, documented low performance seems obviously better than just letting managers fire on a whim.
  - ta1243 2y ago
    I agree, that's the european approach.
    - didntcheck 2y ago
      And how is Europe doing in tech?

by Timon3 2y ago

Low performance is an example of just cause. The employer simply has to prove that this was the case, and that they gave the employee notice, a chance to improve, and a reasonable standard to reach.

ta1243 2y ago

Problem is that require the employer to define what an acceptable level of performance is, and that's notoriously difficult So instead the choices tend to drift to "fire them on the manager's whim" or "practically impossible to get rid of short of murder"

willsmith72 2y ago
Who says it's notoriously difficult? I've worked many places with clear processes for identifying and resolving poor performance issues (firing being one possible resolution). That sounds like just your experience
- ta1243 2y ago
  It's massively common, factors into the whole office/home debates that have been raging for 4 years https://www.apqc.org/blog/better-measurement-knowledge-worker-pickle https://www.apqc.org/blog/better-measurement-knowledge-worke... The crux of growth in knowledge workers is that our current norms of measurement and productivity were developed in a manufacturing or manual task-oriented mindset. According to Peter Drucker, productivity for knowledge workers needs a different set of considerations https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-hub/factsheets/8296-knowledge-work-practice-summary.pdf https://www.cipd.org/globalassets/media/knowledge/knowledge-... While in manual work the targets and outputs are usually clear, knowledge work and its results are less tangible, and therefore harder to define, measure and evaluate https://trepo.tuni.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/114586/palvalin_47.pdf?sequence=1 https://trepo.tuni.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/114586/palvalin... Drucker (1999) has even stated that knowledge worker productivity is the biggest challenge for modern work life. Other researchers have also discovered that the performance of an individual knowledge worker is the most important factor for organisational success... The need for general performance measurement is great as the theme is still quite new and there are very few previous studies measuring the effectiveness of NewWoW practices. There is also a need for practical tools for analysing and managing the performance of knowledge work from the NewWoW perspective. Organisations are still planning and making NewWoW changes, without clear evidence of their benefits and without any measurement information
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > Other researchers have also discovered that the performance of an individual knowledge worker is the most important factor for organisational success... Great, which means we have a way to measure individual performance with respect to what matters (organizational success). So what's the problem?
    - ta1243 2y ago
      No it doesn't, it means we need a reliable way to do it > Organisations are still planning and making NewWoW changes, without clear evidence of their benefits and without any measurement information
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - randomdata 2y ago
        We have a reliable way to do it: The same way the researchers did when they showed that performance is the most important factor for organizational success. If your knowledge workers measure the same way the workers did in that research, you're golden. Unless you question the validity of the research? But if that's the case, why did you mention it as being significant in the first place?
  - didntcheck 2y ago
    > factors into the whole office/home debates that have been raging for 4 years Can you expand on that?
    - ta1243 2y ago
      Some claim that people are just as effective, or more effective, working at home. Others claim the same but from the office. Clearly if it was possible to measure effectiveness unambiguously this wouldn't be a debate.
magneticnorth 2y ago
If those are literally the only choices, then I vote for "practically impossible to get rid of." But I think this is a bit of hyperbole - some kind of ongoing, documented low performance seems obviously better than just letting managers fire on a whim.
- ta1243 2y ago
  I agree, that's the european approach.
  - didntcheck 2y ago
    And how is Europe doing in tech?