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There's more in play here than math. An interesting idea is the concept of a "Vibecession", coined by Kyla Scanlon. It's more a focus on how people "feel" abou

by kayo_20211030 2y ago

There's more in play here than math. An interesting idea is the concept of a "Vibecession", coined by Kyla Scanlon. It's more a focus on how people "feel" about their situation than it is math. It's resonant to me. https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfilling https://kyla.substack.com/p/the-vibecession-the-self-fulfill...

sodality2 2y ago
Do you think people should be compensated more because they feel poorer, regardless of the actual costs of living...? As an avid Scanlon reader I personally think you're misrepresenting her position
- kayo_20211030 2y ago
  Nope, I don't have a particular view on what would be adequate compensation, although I'm reflexively with labor. But it might get to the heart of why people do what they do. Why go on strike when the math says you're being payed above average on a nationwide basis? People are funny that way. Very few are calculators, they're just people.
  - sodality2 2y ago
    I reckon people want to be paid as much as they can bargain for, regardless of their relative income level. Besides, it's not just about pay, it's often about working conditions.
    - kayo_20211030 2y ago
      Yes, and double yes. How these people view (feel about) their working conditions is more important to them than any explanation of why they ought to, or ought not to, feel that way based on some measure of comparative economics or conditions. If they want, for whatever reason (either allergy or solidarity), a scent-free cleaning product and they're willing to strike for it; well, why not? It's a political negotiation, a bargaining. That's sensible to me. Everything is people and politics. It might be justified by math, but it's not driven by it.
      - sodality2 2y ago
        Of course, but I think people do (and should) bargain for as much as they can get. I don't think it should be motivated by and only when workers "feel bad" about the economy necessarily.
robertlagrant 2y ago
> There's more in play here than math As in "people feel as though they want to be paid more"? You may find the idea interesting and resonant, but how does that affect anything? It's still true that they're on more than journalists, regardless of how they feel.
- kayo_20211030 2y ago
  Don't underestimate how someone's feeling about something animates their actions about the same thing.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    Yes, of course. Within their choices, everyone does what they want. But that's not something worth bringing into a discussion, unless we bring it into every discussion as a point to note every time before continuing with the actual discussion.
    - kayo_20211030 2y ago
      But, isn't that the discussion? That is, why would someone earning 100k feel that it's not enough, when all economic comparisons, with peers or peer-adjacents, insist that it's a load of money? Maybe it is, and maybe it's not; but if you go on strike you're probably not convinced by what the Fed, the DOL, and HN say.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        No, the discussion was about actual buying power.

sodality2 2y ago

Do you think people should be compensated more because they feel poorer, regardless of the actual costs of living...? As an avid Scanlon reader I personally think you're misrepresenting her position

kayo_20211030 2y ago
Nope, I don't have a particular view on what would be adequate compensation, although I'm reflexively with labor. But it might get to the heart of why people do what they do. Why go on strike when the math says you're being payed above average on a nationwide basis? People are funny that way. Very few are calculators, they're just people.
- sodality2 2y ago
  I reckon people want to be paid as much as they can bargain for, regardless of their relative income level. Besides, it's not just about pay, it's often about working conditions.
  - kayo_20211030 2y ago
    Yes, and double yes. How these people view (feel about) their working conditions is more important to them than any explanation of why they ought to, or ought not to, feel that way based on some measure of comparative economics or conditions. If they want, for whatever reason (either allergy or solidarity), a scent-free cleaning product and they're willing to strike for it; well, why not? It's a political negotiation, a bargaining. That's sensible to me. Everything is people and politics. It might be justified by math, but it's not driven by it.
    - sodality2 2y ago
      Of course, but I think people do (and should) bargain for as much as they can get. I don't think it should be motivated by and only when workers "feel bad" about the economy necessarily.

robertlagrant 2y ago

> There's more in play here than math As in "people feel as though they want to be paid more"? You may find the idea interesting and resonant, but how does that affect anything? It's still true that they're on more than journalists, regardless of how they feel.

kayo_20211030 2y ago
Don't underestimate how someone's feeling about something animates their actions about the same thing.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Yes, of course. Within their choices, everyone does what they want. But that's not something worth bringing into a discussion, unless we bring it into every discussion as a point to note every time before continuing with the actual discussion.
  - kayo_20211030 2y ago
    But, isn't that the discussion? That is, why would someone earning 100k feel that it's not enough, when all economic comparisons, with peers or peer-adjacents, insist that it's a load of money? Maybe it is, and maybe it's not; but if you go on strike you're probably not convinced by what the Fed, the DOL, and HN say.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      No, the discussion was about actual buying power.