5 ms·

All of my bills say “bull shit”. I’m sure getting it that low means ignoring housing, and making everything in the “basket of goods” worse.

gruez 2y ago
>I’m sure getting it that low means ignoring housing No. https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-and-rent.htm https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-an... >and making everything in the “basket of goods” worse. Given that food, energy, and shelter makes up the bulk of the CPI, I'm not sure how this can be done. The most plausible thing I can think of is "food is less nutritious than before", but I doubt that's an actual factor. "Food is getting less nutritious so I'm forced to shop at whole foods" isn't exactly a popular sentiment.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  How about medical appointments with nurses instead of doctors? I wonder if there is a similar measure for time kids spend in school. My kid comes home early every Wednesday, and there’s are ~15 other early dismissal days during the school year too. I would bet almost everything that relies heavily on labor has been increasing in price faster than official figures for the basket of all goods and services.
- apwell23 2y ago
  "Food" listed in there is not food at all. Thats some cheap filler that isn't really affected by inflation that much because of its just cheap garbage subsided by govt. Look at the junk in this section for exampe > Cereals and bakery products And ofcourse all the items in fruits and vegetables had the highest inflation.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >Look at the junk in this section for exampe >> Cereals and bakery products >And ofcourse all the items in fruits and vegetables had the highest inflation. A simple check shows this is false. The "Cereals and bakery products" category went up by 28.6% since January 2020, compared to 17.9% for "Fruits and Vegetables". You get similar conclusions if you use compare against January 2005. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF111 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF111 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF113 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF113
- jnordwick 2y ago
  You're making a couple mistakes on this. The first is you're using the Nationwide averages as opposed to the regional numbers for New York where a lot of these increases are much greater than on the nation. The second thing is the way it includes housing is by using a thing called the owners imputed rent. And what that does is it tries to back out the rental from a housing unit. The problem is in New York City rent has been rising way faster than that. 30 is the cpi's consistently underestimated a number of its own provisions because of the way it does hedonics and substitution. It basically says that while meat might have risen 50% people switch to fish now and it uses in lower value for inflation. The CPI over the last 30 years have been so massively game it's almost useless anymore
  - gruez 2y ago
    >The first is you're using the Nationwide averages as opposed to the regional numbers for New York where a lot of these increases are much greater than on the nation. Another commenter has pointed out new york house prices actually rose slower compared to the rest of the country. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42043147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42043147 >The second thing is the way it includes housing is by using a thing called the owners imputed rent. And what that does is it tries to back out the rental from a housing unit. The problem is in New York City rent has been rising way faster than that. Most Americans own their home. OER might not be perfect, but pretending that they pay market rent doesn't make much sense either. Even for people who don't own their home, new york has rent control, which provides similar inflation protections compared to owning a home. >30 is the cpi's consistently underestimated a number of its own provisions because of the way it does hedonics and substitution. It basically says that while meat might have risen 50% people switch to fish now and it uses in lower value for inflation. The part about hedonic adjustment is misleading. While it's true that such adjustments are used. It's only used for small minority of categories (basically clothes and technology), and doesn't include stuff like food (like in your example). Meanwhile the part about substitution is straight up false: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/common-misconceptions-about-cpi.htm#Question_3 https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/common-misconceptions-abo...
    - jnordwick 2y ago
- caeril 2y ago
  These are NYC tech workers. "Food" isn't broccoli beef stir fry at home for $8. It's dinner at Del Frisco's for $300. You need to understand that when people bitch about the "cost of living", they're not speaking in broad terms. They're speaking in specific terms, inclusive of their insane budgetary choices that they believe are mandatory to be seen as high-status. Yes, you can live just fine on the median income. But in order to have your ego stroked as the super important high class person that you obviously are, you have to spend some money. Choosing to live in NYC in the first place is certainly part of that, the rest is just gravy.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    This was pretty funny. Not particularly believable or credible, but definitely funny! It reads like you are projecting your own beliefs of what New Yorkers and tech workers are like, and then screaming about that intersection.
  - ken47 2y ago
    Can we stick to stats over caricatures? If we’re going to go by “gut feel,” the stereotype is that the status climbers primarily go into finance, consulting, medicine, and law - not engineering.
    - caeril 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - ken47 2y ago
        My work at FAANG and FAANG-adjacent companies would suggest that it’s far more probable that a random e.g. finance professional is driven primarily by perceived status than a software engineer. The media and general public still openly poke fun at tech titans like Mark Zuckerberg and even Jeff Bezos in a way that they would never do to e.g. Jamie Dimon. The perceived statuses are still incomparable, and I think any competent Gen Zer knows it.
      - drawkward 2y ago

gruez 2y ago

>I’m sure getting it that low means ignoring housing No. https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-and-rent.htm https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-an... >and making everything in the “basket of goods” worse. Given that food, energy, and shelter makes up the bulk of the CPI, I'm not sure how this can be done. The most plausible thing I can think of is "food is less nutritious than before", but I doubt that's an actual factor. "Food is getting less nutritious so I'm forced to shop at whole foods" isn't exactly a popular sentiment.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
How about medical appointments with nurses instead of doctors? I wonder if there is a similar measure for time kids spend in school. My kid comes home early every Wednesday, and there’s are ~15 other early dismissal days during the school year too. I would bet almost everything that relies heavily on labor has been increasing in price faster than official figures for the basket of all goods and services.
apwell23 2y ago
"Food" listed in there is not food at all. Thats some cheap filler that isn't really affected by inflation that much because of its just cheap garbage subsided by govt. Look at the junk in this section for exampe > Cereals and bakery products And ofcourse all the items in fruits and vegetables had the highest inflation.
- gruez 2y ago
  >Look at the junk in this section for exampe >> Cereals and bakery products >And ofcourse all the items in fruits and vegetables had the highest inflation. A simple check shows this is false. The "Cereals and bakery products" category went up by 28.6% since January 2020, compared to 17.9% for "Fruits and Vegetables". You get similar conclusions if you use compare against January 2005. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF111 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF111 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF113 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SAF113
jnordwick 2y ago
You're making a couple mistakes on this. The first is you're using the Nationwide averages as opposed to the regional numbers for New York where a lot of these increases are much greater than on the nation. The second thing is the way it includes housing is by using a thing called the owners imputed rent. And what that does is it tries to back out the rental from a housing unit. The problem is in New York City rent has been rising way faster than that. 30 is the cpi's consistently underestimated a number of its own provisions because of the way it does hedonics and substitution. It basically says that while meat might have risen 50% people switch to fish now and it uses in lower value for inflation. The CPI over the last 30 years have been so massively game it's almost useless anymore
- gruez 2y ago
  >The first is you're using the Nationwide averages as opposed to the regional numbers for New York where a lot of these increases are much greater than on the nation. Another commenter has pointed out new york house prices actually rose slower compared to the rest of the country. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42043147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42043147 >The second thing is the way it includes housing is by using a thing called the owners imputed rent. And what that does is it tries to back out the rental from a housing unit. The problem is in New York City rent has been rising way faster than that. Most Americans own their home. OER might not be perfect, but pretending that they pay market rent doesn't make much sense either. Even for people who don't own their home, new york has rent control, which provides similar inflation protections compared to owning a home. >30 is the cpi's consistently underestimated a number of its own provisions because of the way it does hedonics and substitution. It basically says that while meat might have risen 50% people switch to fish now and it uses in lower value for inflation. The part about hedonic adjustment is misleading. While it's true that such adjustments are used. It's only used for small minority of categories (basically clothes and technology), and doesn't include stuff like food (like in your example). Meanwhile the part about substitution is straight up false: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/common-misconceptions-about-cpi.htm#Question_3 https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/common-misconceptions-abo...
  - jnordwick 2y ago
caeril 2y ago
These are NYC tech workers. "Food" isn't broccoli beef stir fry at home for $8. It's dinner at Del Frisco's for $300. You need to understand that when people bitch about the "cost of living", they're not speaking in broad terms. They're speaking in specific terms, inclusive of their insane budgetary choices that they believe are mandatory to be seen as high-status. Yes, you can live just fine on the median income. But in order to have your ego stroked as the super important high class person that you obviously are, you have to spend some money. Choosing to live in NYC in the first place is certainly part of that, the rest is just gravy.
- drawkward 2y ago
  This was pretty funny. Not particularly believable or credible, but definitely funny! It reads like you are projecting your own beliefs of what New Yorkers and tech workers are like, and then screaming about that intersection.
- ken47 2y ago
  Can we stick to stats over caricatures? If we’re going to go by “gut feel,” the stereotype is that the status climbers primarily go into finance, consulting, medicine, and law - not engineering.
  - caeril 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ken47 2y ago
      My work at FAANG and FAANG-adjacent companies would suggest that it’s far more probable that a random e.g. finance professional is driven primarily by perceived status than a software engineer. The media and general public still openly poke fun at tech titans like Mark Zuckerberg and even Jeff Bezos in a way that they would never do to e.g. Jamie Dimon. The perceived statuses are still incomparable, and I think any competent Gen Zer knows it.
    - drawkward 2y ago