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Going off topic a bit, I've been reading a number of scholarly works on early Christianity over the past year. These include, "The Origin of Satan," "The Gnosti
by alsetmusic 2y ago
Going off topic a bit, I've been reading a number of scholarly works on early Christianity over the past year. These include, "The Origin of Satan," "The Gnostic Gospels," "The Gospel of Mary Magdala," "The Passover Plot," "Jesus the Jew," "How Jesus Became God," and "From Jesus to Christ." To be clear, I am an atheist and a history nerd and I'm really enjoying the scholarship of these works.
I recently started reading works that argue against the historicity of Jesus Christ: "Salvation - From Ancient Judaism to Christianity Without a Historical Jesus," "The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus," and next up is, "On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason for Doubt."
I have become largely convinced that the epistles of Paul and pseudo-Paul are writing not about a man who recently lived, but about a being revealed to him / them in revelations from god (small "g;" remember, I'm an atheist). I won't litigate their arguments here as I'd have to write blocks of text, but I have been persuaded that the book of Mark was likely an allegory and it was only with time that such came to be taken literally.
The need to reset the expectations of the believers because the arrival of the kingdom of god kept getting pushed back from "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" (Mark), to now coming soon following the destruction of the temple (Matthew, Luke), to (paraphrasing) "it's coming eventually, so trust in the Church," (John) created a need to keep reinterpreting Mark (hence, why Jewish Christianity died out and mostly only Gentiles remained).
Anyway, it's a fun topic if you're a non-believer and won't get offended by the ideas presented. I'm enjoying it a lot and thought I'd share. Q is frequently cited in most of the above works and that was my jumping off point. There's also thought to be a "sayings" source that was made up of quotes by Jesus used in the gospels. The thing is, following the Nicene Creed, the variants of Christianity (of which there were at least three documented by ancient historians) were systematically wiped out. Were it not for the works found around the Dead Sea, we'd have little to go on other than descriptions from Christian apologists; what little we have demonstrates the rich tapestry of alternative beliefs fighting for supremacy (even Paul fought the Jerusalem apostles: Peter, James, John on topics such as The Law and kosher foods).
It's just after 6am where I live and I just woke up. Please forgive typos and errors, as I don't have the leisure of properly proofing this comment before getting on with my day / job.
- gnatman 2y agoGreat post! One book that got a lot a press a few years back was Reza Aslan's "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth". It works to establish the historical Roman & Judaical context that Jesus the person would have been operating in. Probably a lot of crossover with the other books you've been reading.
- cxr 2y agoAslan is such a dishonest broker that it would be difficult to take a recommendation seriously even if without so many anti-endorsements from historians: > "Aslan's grandiose claims and his limited credentials in history is glaring on almost every page." > "His book is filled with mistakes and inaccuracies... about Roman history, about the New Testament, about the history of early Christianity." [...] Ehrman comments that the book is well-written [as a work from a professor of creative writing], but "I don't think it's trustworthy as a historical account."
- alsetmusic 2y ago"How Jesus Became God," is an Ehrman work, so this feedback is useful. I'll still check background on the prior recommendation before making up my mind whether I think it's worth checking out.
- squeegee_scream 2y agoI’m a Christian and a history nerd. If you’re interested in the counter arguments to what you’ve read, for historical and academic purposes or perhaps curiosity, start with NT Wright, or more broadly “The New Perspective on Paul” which is a movement similar to “The Search for the Historical Jesus”.
- alsetmusic 2y agoThanks! I'm looking those up now.
- tiahura 2y agoIsn’t the timeframe a little short?