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It seems they failed either because: 1. The businesses didn't know how to handle the workers not being in the office. While a problem in the past, this is now

It seems they failed either because: 1. The businesses didn't know how to handle the workers not being in the office. While a problem in the past, this is now a solved problem thanks to COVID forcing them to figure it out. 2. The businesses tried to hire cheap workers. This is still going to fail, just as hiring minimum wage workers in the US for the job would fail. The workers you actually want charge the same no matter where their seat happens to be located. But I'm not sure that is applicable here as the parent is not talking about cost-cutting, but filling the roles that are no longer filled due to the strike.

more_corn 2y ago
Cultural problems, communication problems, leadership problems. I’ve been involved in a lot of software offshoring projects. It’s about twice as likely to end in failure compared to onshore software development services. It has nothing to do with the price. I’ve worked with great devs who were cheap and terrible devs who were expensive. And it’s hard to tell which is which till the project ships or fails to ship.
- vijucat 2y ago
  > It has nothing to do with the price. I’ve worked with great devs who were cheap and terrible devs who were expensive. And it’s hard to tell which is which till the project ships or fails to ship. Very interesting, thanks!
surgical_fire 2y ago
I worked both as an offshore contractor, and as part of a team with offshore members. I can ensure that #1 is bullshit. You can have the whole offshore team in an office butts in seats all day and meet with failure. Happened many times in the past. #2 is a possibility. What happens when you do it is that your cheap hires tend to stay for a short time (as they will get better offers later, possibly involving relocation to better countries). You end up with the ones that are cheap for a reason. Most of reasons for failure is that incentives in between contractors and hiring company is misaligned, leadership have no idea what they are doing, cultural differences, time zone differences, etc.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > You can have the whole offshore team in an office butts in seats all day and meet with failure. If all the butts are in the same office, you are no longer offshoring. You've moved the entire business. I don't think that is what anyone here is talking about, though. I certainly wasn't. Offshoring normally implies remote work.
  - TeaBrain 2y ago
    You've misinterpreted their comment. US companies that offshore usually have offices in other countries and these offshore offices typically have stricter RTO policies than the onshore offices. They weren't saying that all of the workers for a given company were in an offshore office, but that the offshore employees were required to be in-office.
    - randomdata 2y ago
      Again, offshoring normally implies that there are workers still in an "onshore" office. This has traditionally failed because the workers in the "onshore" office didn't know how to bridge the gap with the workers in the "offshore" office. But that's not the case anymore. The "onshore" workers are (or at least did for several years, giving the needed experience) also working remotely, so there is no longer an office barrier between the "onshore" business and the workers abroad. Whether or not the workers "offshore" work together in an office or independently at coffee shops really makes no difference and has nothing to do with the conversation. If you mean the parent misinterpreted what we're talking about – that is likely true. But we're not going to change the subject just because he is confused.
      - TeaBrain 2y ago
        > If you mean the parent misinterpreted what we're talking about – that is likely true. No, like I spelled out, your response that I replied to misinterpreted the comment that you replied to. What they were pointing out was that the failure rate of offshore work was never due to offshore teams being unable to coordinate due to not being in-office, but because other other problems, such as culture. Also, the user that you replied to was the one who made the upper-level comment that you originally responded to, not the other way around.

more_corn 2y ago

Cultural problems, communication problems, leadership problems. I’ve been involved in a lot of software offshoring projects. It’s about twice as likely to end in failure compared to onshore software development services. It has nothing to do with the price. I’ve worked with great devs who were cheap and terrible devs who were expensive. And it’s hard to tell which is which till the project ships or fails to ship.

vijucat 2y ago
> It has nothing to do with the price. I’ve worked with great devs who were cheap and terrible devs who were expensive. And it’s hard to tell which is which till the project ships or fails to ship. Very interesting, thanks!

surgical_fire 2y ago

I worked both as an offshore contractor, and as part of a team with offshore members. I can ensure that #1 is bullshit. You can have the whole offshore team in an office butts in seats all day and meet with failure. Happened many times in the past. #2 is a possibility. What happens when you do it is that your cheap hires tend to stay for a short time (as they will get better offers later, possibly involving relocation to better countries). You end up with the ones that are cheap for a reason. Most of reasons for failure is that incentives in between contractors and hiring company is misaligned, leadership have no idea what they are doing, cultural differences, time zone differences, etc.

randomdata 2y ago
> You can have the whole offshore team in an office butts in seats all day and meet with failure. If all the butts are in the same office, you are no longer offshoring. You've moved the entire business. I don't think that is what anyone here is talking about, though. I certainly wasn't. Offshoring normally implies remote work.
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  You've misinterpreted their comment. US companies that offshore usually have offices in other countries and these offshore offices typically have stricter RTO policies than the onshore offices. They weren't saying that all of the workers for a given company were in an offshore office, but that the offshore employees were required to be in-office.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    Again, offshoring normally implies that there are workers still in an "onshore" office. This has traditionally failed because the workers in the "onshore" office didn't know how to bridge the gap with the workers in the "offshore" office. But that's not the case anymore. The "onshore" workers are (or at least did for several years, giving the needed experience) also working remotely, so there is no longer an office barrier between the "onshore" business and the workers abroad. Whether or not the workers "offshore" work together in an office or independently at coffee shops really makes no difference and has nothing to do with the conversation. If you mean the parent misinterpreted what we're talking about – that is likely true. But we're not going to change the subject just because he is confused.
    - TeaBrain 2y ago
      > If you mean the parent misinterpreted what we're talking about – that is likely true. No, like I spelled out, your response that I replied to misinterpreted the comment that you replied to. What they were pointing out was that the failure rate of offshore work was never due to offshore teams being unable to coordinate due to not being in-office, but because other other problems, such as culture. Also, the user that you replied to was the one who made the upper-level comment that you originally responded to, not the other way around.