2 ms·

One way I get to have faith in our country and pride in being an American for the next four years. You're talking about Jan 6 like it was just some minor scuff

One way I get to have faith in our country and pride in being an American for the next four years. You're talking about Jan 6 like it was just some minor scuffle. And I agree that it did not ultimately amount to more than that, but do not forget that at the time there were two live bombs on the ground, we were in a constitutional crisis, the president seemed to be hoping that if he maintained silence his supporters would carry out a forceful takeover of the government which he assured them would be righteous in his view. The fact that there was not more escalation had a lot to do with how many people were watching closely, as well as with the actions of a few individuals like Mike Pence and Brad Reffensperger who, at the most important moments, decided that their duty was to all Americans and not just to one man.

lolinder 2y ago
> The fact that there was not more escalation had a lot to do with how many people were watching closely It had absolutely nothing to do with the rubberneckers (myself included) who were following it from moment to moment on the other side of the country. Some small percentage of the watchers are in a place to actually do something about it, and if that's you then fine. Most of us don't need to know on the day of, we've just grown accustomed to knowing, and it's probably honestly a net negative for the world that we do follow things that are outside of our control so closely.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Trump was literally watching television news, taking the temperature of people's reactions on Twitter, and deciding in real time what he should do based on that information. The insurrectionists were closely watching the news and Twitter as well. Probably more people would have died or the coup would have been successful if there was lag in the coverage of a few days.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    If you believe this you fundamentally misunderstand the kinds of people who were participating in the insurrection. The opinions of the people who are comfortable sitting by while the conspiracy "steals the election" (or more likely, the astrotufed reactions put forward by sockpuppets of the conspirators themselves) don't matter by the time you get to the point of invading the US capitol. Trump was being cynical, but the insurrectionists themselves were just nuts. They couldn't have cared less what Twitter thought.
    - enriquec 2y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HnqV6jzTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HnqV6jzTU
mschuster91 2y ago
> The fact that there was not more escalation had a lot to do with how many people were watching closely, as well as with the actions of a few individuals like Mike Pence and Brad Reffensperger who, at the most important moments, decided that their duty was to all Americans and not just to one man. ... and in no small part due to the actions of police officer Eugene Goodman [1], who diverted away the incoming rioters with about 60 seconds or so to spare - had he not done that, the mob would likely have been able to take hostages. It was sheer fucking luck and a couple of very VERY brave individuals that kept the death count of Jan 6th in the single digits (at least if one excludes the police officers committing suicide in the months after). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goodman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goodman
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
enriquec 2y ago
[flagged]
- conartist6 2y ago
  I like coming to the Hacker News comments to get a sense of what other perspectives people have. "Insurrection" is, in the most tone-deaf language-nerd sense, the word for what happened on that day. You could say that the US had a famous insurrection against the British, but we call it a revolution and we call the people who fought in the resulting war patriots and heroes. I've no doubt that the people who went and fought at the capitol believed that they were fighting as soldiers and patriots, so I'm less inclined to judge their moral character than I am to judge that of the person who told them that their lives and futures were over unless they took action.
  - enriquec 2y ago
    no, completely unarmed protestors - protesting in favor of an election audit - did not think they were soldiers.
    - conartist6 2y ago
      Really? War paint, mob mentality, tactical gear, and many of the police that engaged with them ended up wounded or dead. People were climbing the walls, smashing through windows. Can you imagine these people doing any of these things if they weren't riding a surge of adrenaline that justified any risk to further the cause? Can you imagine them being alone, without the (presumed) support of the sitting president, and doing these things? I can imagine them standing outside with signs, and if that's what they did we wouldn't be having a conversation now.
      - enriquec 2y ago
        What police engaged with them and ended up wounded or dead? Can you show me?
    - conartist6 2y ago
datavirtue 2y ago
People were beaten, trampled and shot in the face. Subsequently, most are convicted and/or in prison. It was not a "scuffle."

lolinder 2y ago

> The fact that there was not more escalation had a lot to do with how many people were watching closely It had absolutely nothing to do with the rubberneckers (myself included) who were following it from moment to moment on the other side of the country. Some small percentage of the watchers are in a place to actually do something about it, and if that's you then fine. Most of us don't need to know on the day of, we've just grown accustomed to knowing, and it's probably honestly a net negative for the world that we do follow things that are outside of our control so closely.

Larrikin 2y ago
Trump was literally watching television news, taking the temperature of people's reactions on Twitter, and deciding in real time what he should do based on that information. The insurrectionists were closely watching the news and Twitter as well. Probably more people would have died or the coup would have been successful if there was lag in the coverage of a few days.
- lolinder 2y ago
  If you believe this you fundamentally misunderstand the kinds of people who were participating in the insurrection. The opinions of the people who are comfortable sitting by while the conspiracy "steals the election" (or more likely, the astrotufed reactions put forward by sockpuppets of the conspirators themselves) don't matter by the time you get to the point of invading the US capitol. Trump was being cynical, but the insurrectionists themselves were just nuts. They couldn't have cared less what Twitter thought.
  - enriquec 2y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HnqV6jzTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6HnqV6jzTU

mschuster91 2y ago

> The fact that there was not more escalation had a lot to do with how many people were watching closely, as well as with the actions of a few individuals like Mike Pence and Brad Reffensperger who, at the most important moments, decided that their duty was to all Americans and not just to one man. ... and in no small part due to the actions of police officer Eugene Goodman [1], who diverted away the incoming rioters with about 60 seconds or so to spare - had he not done that, the mob would likely have been able to take hostages. It was sheer fucking luck and a couple of very VERY brave individuals that kept the death count of Jan 6th in the single digits (at least if one excludes the police officers committing suicide in the months after). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goodman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Goodman

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

enriquec 2y ago

[flagged]

conartist6 2y ago
I like coming to the Hacker News comments to get a sense of what other perspectives people have. "Insurrection" is, in the most tone-deaf language-nerd sense, the word for what happened on that day. You could say that the US had a famous insurrection against the British, but we call it a revolution and we call the people who fought in the resulting war patriots and heroes. I've no doubt that the people who went and fought at the capitol believed that they were fighting as soldiers and patriots, so I'm less inclined to judge their moral character than I am to judge that of the person who told them that their lives and futures were over unless they took action.
- enriquec 2y ago
  no, completely unarmed protestors - protesting in favor of an election audit - did not think they were soldiers.
  - conartist6 2y ago
    Really? War paint, mob mentality, tactical gear, and many of the police that engaged with them ended up wounded or dead. People were climbing the walls, smashing through windows. Can you imagine these people doing any of these things if they weren't riding a surge of adrenaline that justified any risk to further the cause? Can you imagine them being alone, without the (presumed) support of the sitting president, and doing these things? I can imagine them standing outside with signs, and if that's what they did we wouldn't be having a conversation now.
    - enriquec 2y ago
      What police engaged with them and ended up wounded or dead? Can you show me?
  - conartist6 2y ago

datavirtue 2y ago

People were beaten, trampled and shot in the face. Subsequently, most are convicted and/or in prison. It was not a "scuffle."