4 ms·

Thanks for the link. As someone who feels disenfranchised with a countercultural thread running through, a lot of it resonated with me. I do tend to vote third

Thanks for the link. As someone who feels disenfranchised with a countercultural thread running through, a lot of it resonated with me. I do tend to vote third party as well (maybe not this election given the state of the GOP) — after all, it’s your vote, why give it to someone you don’t agree with? Though I will say that if you didn’t vote, then you don’t get to complain about the system because after all by not voting you’re rejecting a core tenet of the system. I gotta read more things out of this library, this is fun to noodle on.

SllX 2y ago
> Though I will say that if you didn’t vote, then you don’t get to complain about the system because after all by not voting you’re rejecting a core tenet of the system. I gotta read more things out of this library, this is fun to noodle on. As a previous water-carrier for this form of “if you don’t vote you don’t get to complain” propaganda, it’s crap. If there isn’t one single person you want to vote for on the ballot, you’re fully entitled to not vote and complain loudly about it. Making the choice to not exercise the one right does not preclude anyone’s use of the other.
- pixelatedindex 2y ago
  Of course, you can complain loudly about who’s on the ballot. But you don’t get to complain about the outcome of the election because you decided to opt out.
  - SllX 2y ago
    Nah. You can opt out and complain about the outcome too. That’s my point. Not exercising the one does not preclude the other, despite what wannabe gatekeepers may declare otherwise.
    - pixelatedindex 2y ago
      Sure, if you’re active in local government / community. To rephrase, what I meant was you can’t complain if you don’t partake at all because then you’re offering no solution or doing anything to make things better.
      - scarecrowbob 2y ago
        I mean, if you're not in a military committing atrocities, clearly you shouldn't have any voice in saying if that military should commit atrocities- because then you’re offering no solution or doing anything to make things better. Makes perfect sense to me. /s
  - komali2 2y ago
    > But you don’t get to complain about the outcome of the election because you decided to opt out. Why not?
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  The thing to do is spoil your ballot. Otherwise people will think you are being lazy (and they will probably be right in most cases).
  - SllX 2y ago
    The thing to do is not blanket assign connotations to other people’s choice in how and when they execute their rights.
- troyvit 2y ago
  There's a write-in spot on ballots for a reason. That said there are more than people on ballots to vote for, and some of those things (open space, conceal and carry laws, abortion restrictions, school choice) are possibly more important than the people at the top of the ticket because as local measures they have a higher chance to directly affect you.
  - SllX 2y ago
    I am a seasoned voter who submitted his ballot several weeks ago in addition to prior-water-carrier for said propaganda. I know how ballots work. All of that is irrelevant. Choosing not to exercise your right to vote is a valid choice, and choosing not to exercise that right does not preclude you from complaining about electoral outcomes and the policies of the extant and future governments.
    - troyvit 2y ago
      > choosing not to exercise that right does not preclude you from complaining about electoral outcomes Sure. But it means I take you as seriously as I would any arm chair quarterback complaining about sports.
      - SllX 2y ago
        In a vacuum, valid. You can do that. Depending on someone’s reasoning, I might do the same, but I don’t draw the line specifically at whether someone voted or not. It’s not decisive criteria.
- BeFlatXIII 2y ago
  Then write in Mickey Mouse
- jrm4 2y ago
  Current water-carrier here; I find it especially hard to believe that anyone could find a ballot where a few minutes of internet research would not reveal an at least slightly preferable candidate -- if not for you personally, for your community. Ultimately, I find the supposed "principled non-voter" to simply just be selfish.
  - SllX 2y ago
    Sure, maybe it’s selfish, but so is voting. That’s not a sin. Voting someone into office is inherently about electing them into a position of power. Generally that means voters are going to prefer someone who is aligned with their interests. If you examine a ballot and determine that that is no one running, then it is fine to draw the conclusion that you would prefer to skip this election. Voting also has consequences. If your world view is not developed enough to determine who that person would be, it is also fine to wait until you’re older before you begin voting in elections. Elections are recurring, it isn’t necessary to vote in every single one of them, and on every single item on the ballot until you have an interest in doing so.
ddingus 2y ago
Comment below not intended as direct rebuttal to parent comment. It is just a relevant riff on the tired if you don't vote, don't complain BS. Soap box mode = 1 Yes you do get to complain same as anyone does whether you or anyone voted or not. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. In the US, voting is not mandatory. Casting voting as a condition of redressing ones grievances with government is actually just a psyops version of manufactured consent. If you are inclined to consent, and you feel a vote is worth casting, by all means vote! Maybe you think the whole thing lacks legitimacy? And you want to vote indie or third party or maybe even participate in ratfucking by voting for the very worst candidate a given party could get stuck with? By all means vote. Otherwise you are not required to vote and not voting is just fine. You remain a citizen. The Constitution still applies and all that stuff we know and expect is exactly the same whether we vote or not. Encouraging others to vote for many other reasons is fine too. Don't get me wrong there. I am very specifically calling out the idea of ones participation in this US society being predicated on a vote. That is just not true, and I really dislike advocacy rooted in falsehoods like this kind of advocacy always is. Soap box mode = 0 Maybe I will take a look at this library myself!

SllX 2y ago

> Though I will say that if you didn’t vote, then you don’t get to complain about the system because after all by not voting you’re rejecting a core tenet of the system. I gotta read more things out of this library, this is fun to noodle on. As a previous water-carrier for this form of “if you don’t vote you don’t get to complain” propaganda, it’s crap. If there isn’t one single person you want to vote for on the ballot, you’re fully entitled to not vote and complain loudly about it. Making the choice to not exercise the one right does not preclude anyone’s use of the other.

pixelatedindex 2y ago
Of course, you can complain loudly about who’s on the ballot. But you don’t get to complain about the outcome of the election because you decided to opt out.
- SllX 2y ago
  Nah. You can opt out and complain about the outcome too. That’s my point. Not exercising the one does not preclude the other, despite what wannabe gatekeepers may declare otherwise.
  - pixelatedindex 2y ago
    Sure, if you’re active in local government / community. To rephrase, what I meant was you can’t complain if you don’t partake at all because then you’re offering no solution or doing anything to make things better.
    - scarecrowbob 2y ago
      I mean, if you're not in a military committing atrocities, clearly you shouldn't have any voice in saying if that military should commit atrocities- because then you’re offering no solution or doing anything to make things better. Makes perfect sense to me. /s
- komali2 2y ago
  > But you don’t get to complain about the outcome of the election because you decided to opt out. Why not?
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
The thing to do is spoil your ballot. Otherwise people will think you are being lazy (and they will probably be right in most cases).
- SllX 2y ago
  The thing to do is not blanket assign connotations to other people’s choice in how and when they execute their rights.
troyvit 2y ago
There's a write-in spot on ballots for a reason. That said there are more than people on ballots to vote for, and some of those things (open space, conceal and carry laws, abortion restrictions, school choice) are possibly more important than the people at the top of the ticket because as local measures they have a higher chance to directly affect you.
- SllX 2y ago
  I am a seasoned voter who submitted his ballot several weeks ago in addition to prior-water-carrier for said propaganda. I know how ballots work. All of that is irrelevant. Choosing not to exercise your right to vote is a valid choice, and choosing not to exercise that right does not preclude you from complaining about electoral outcomes and the policies of the extant and future governments.
  - troyvit 2y ago
    > choosing not to exercise that right does not preclude you from complaining about electoral outcomes Sure. But it means I take you as seriously as I would any arm chair quarterback complaining about sports.
    - SllX 2y ago
      In a vacuum, valid. You can do that. Depending on someone’s reasoning, I might do the same, but I don’t draw the line specifically at whether someone voted or not. It’s not decisive criteria.
BeFlatXIII 2y ago
Then write in Mickey Mouse
jrm4 2y ago
Current water-carrier here; I find it especially hard to believe that anyone could find a ballot where a few minutes of internet research would not reveal an at least slightly preferable candidate -- if not for you personally, for your community. Ultimately, I find the supposed "principled non-voter" to simply just be selfish.
- SllX 2y ago
  Sure, maybe it’s selfish, but so is voting. That’s not a sin. Voting someone into office is inherently about electing them into a position of power. Generally that means voters are going to prefer someone who is aligned with their interests. If you examine a ballot and determine that that is no one running, then it is fine to draw the conclusion that you would prefer to skip this election. Voting also has consequences. If your world view is not developed enough to determine who that person would be, it is also fine to wait until you’re older before you begin voting in elections. Elections are recurring, it isn’t necessary to vote in every single one of them, and on every single item on the ballot until you have an interest in doing so.

ddingus 2y ago

Comment below not intended as direct rebuttal to parent comment. It is just a relevant riff on the tired if you don't vote, don't complain BS. Soap box mode = 1 Yes you do get to complain same as anyone does whether you or anyone voted or not. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. In the US, voting is not mandatory. Casting voting as a condition of redressing ones grievances with government is actually just a psyops version of manufactured consent. If you are inclined to consent, and you feel a vote is worth casting, by all means vote! Maybe you think the whole thing lacks legitimacy? And you want to vote indie or third party or maybe even participate in ratfucking by voting for the very worst candidate a given party could get stuck with? By all means vote. Otherwise you are not required to vote and not voting is just fine. You remain a citizen. The Constitution still applies and all that stuff we know and expect is exactly the same whether we vote or not. Encouraging others to vote for many other reasons is fine too. Don't get me wrong there. I am very specifically calling out the idea of ones participation in this US society being predicated on a vote. That is just not true, and I really dislike advocacy rooted in falsehoods like this kind of advocacy always is. Soap box mode = 0 Maybe I will take a look at this library myself!