3 ms·

I feel like I’ve heard this before, is this something that is actually novel?

staplung 2y ago
Hard to tell. The cynical response is that the novelty is that it's coming from Stanford. The perhaps more correct response is that the novelty is the mechanism of triggering the apoptosis and the specificity. Here's a paper from 2018 that discusses the prospect of using apoptosis for cancer treatment. They even talk about BCL-2. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5855670/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5855670/
SanjayMehta 2y ago
It’s due to the phrase “self destruct.” For some reason people who write headlines like using this in the context of cancer cells. First noticed it in 2010 when I was researching multiple myeloma treatments for my father. It’s medical clickbait.
- F-Lexx 2y ago
  Isn't the phrase "self destruct" just meant to be a popular term of referring to apoptosis or programmed cell death in general?
emporas 2y ago
Triggering the automatic cell death on demand, instead of a period of time, i.e. apoptosis, sounds pretty smart and novel. After 7 years all of our cells die and regenerate, but using biochemistry and some endogenous proteins glued together to control that period of time, i haven't heard about it before. Not a medical expert, but cancers have a vast number of variations in the type of the cancer cell they create, but one common characteristic of all cancers is that they are derived from our own cells. So they should respond to some "commands" our own cells follow. Inducing apoptosis for cancer prevention and treatment is old news though. Fasting, water fasting that is, causes apoptosis of cells en mass and has proven to be very effective in minimizing radiotherapy or chemotherapy sessions, and even a total treatment. Instead of doing 20 chemotherapy sessions, reducing it down to 1 or 2 and the cancer is gone. Anyway, someone doing the same using a biochemical pathway and light up gene expression, is pretty novel.
- bglazer 2y ago
  I think you’re overstating the “proven” effect of water fasting. That said I’m surprised and happy to see that several academic medical centers are running trials of fastingin conjunction with chemotherapy. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/discoveries/fasting-as-next-step-in-cancer-treatment.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/discoveries/fasting-as-next-ste...
  - emporas 2y ago
    I meant "proven" when done by the patients themselves, not by the doctors necessarily. Dr. Gundry has done an interview with a martial arts guy who was diagnosed with cancer, and fasted for 20 days only water, and 20 days a little meat and nothing else, and one or two sessions of chemotherapy or radiotherapy later he was clear of cancer. There are many people who talk about same experiences, from the patient side. If some doctors are seriously researching fasting and cancer treatment, that's going to produce some measurements instead of relying on anecdotes. I cannot find Gundry's interview, it's 5 years old something like that.
    - Auracle 2y ago
      You’ll find anecdotal “evidence” for all sorts of stuff when it comes to cancer. Some of it is just woo, others might just work for really specific genetic mutations, etc. Fasting in general has been known for quite a while but (and I’m far from an expert) it only helps with certain cancers. Hell, I had a friend die this year from stomach cancer and he literally couldn’t eat or drink. He only went to the hospital when he was already skin and bones, got a few chemo treatments, and then it was too late.

Hard to tell. The cynical response is that the novelty is that it's coming from Stanford. The perhaps more correct response is that the novelty is the mechanism of triggering the apoptosis and the specificity. Here's a paper from 2018 that discusses the prospect of using apoptosis for cancer treatment. They even talk about BCL-2. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5855670/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5855670/

SanjayMehta 2y ago

It’s due to the phrase “self destruct.” For some reason people who write headlines like using this in the context of cancer cells. First noticed it in 2010 when I was researching multiple myeloma treatments for my father. It’s medical clickbait.

F-Lexx 2y ago
Isn't the phrase "self destruct" just meant to be a popular term of referring to apoptosis or programmed cell death in general?

emporas 2y ago

Triggering the automatic cell death on demand, instead of a period of time, i.e. apoptosis, sounds pretty smart and novel. After 7 years all of our cells die and regenerate, but using biochemistry and some endogenous proteins glued together to control that period of time, i haven't heard about it before. Not a medical expert, but cancers have a vast number of variations in the type of the cancer cell they create, but one common characteristic of all cancers is that they are derived from our own cells. So they should respond to some "commands" our own cells follow. Inducing apoptosis for cancer prevention and treatment is old news though. Fasting, water fasting that is, causes apoptosis of cells en mass and has proven to be very effective in minimizing radiotherapy or chemotherapy sessions, and even a total treatment. Instead of doing 20 chemotherapy sessions, reducing it down to 1 or 2 and the cancer is gone. Anyway, someone doing the same using a biochemical pathway and light up gene expression, is pretty novel.

bglazer 2y ago
I think you’re overstating the “proven” effect of water fasting. That said I’m surprised and happy to see that several academic medical centers are running trials of fastingin conjunction with chemotherapy. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/discoveries/fasting-as-next-step-in-cancer-treatment.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/discoveries/fasting-as-next-ste...
- emporas 2y ago
  I meant "proven" when done by the patients themselves, not by the doctors necessarily. Dr. Gundry has done an interview with a martial arts guy who was diagnosed with cancer, and fasted for 20 days only water, and 20 days a little meat and nothing else, and one or two sessions of chemotherapy or radiotherapy later he was clear of cancer. There are many people who talk about same experiences, from the patient side. If some doctors are seriously researching fasting and cancer treatment, that's going to produce some measurements instead of relying on anecdotes. I cannot find Gundry's interview, it's 5 years old something like that.
  - Auracle 2y ago
    You’ll find anecdotal “evidence” for all sorts of stuff when it comes to cancer. Some of it is just woo, others might just work for really specific genetic mutations, etc. Fasting in general has been known for quite a while but (and I’m far from an expert) it only helps with certain cancers. Hell, I had a friend die this year from stomach cancer and he literally couldn’t eat or drink. He only went to the hospital when he was already skin and bones, got a few chemo treatments, and then it was too late.