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Why would Russia invade Ukraine ? Why would China invade Taiwan ? Can’t they make do with the resources they already have ?

toomuchtodo 2y ago
It’s about power and legacy, not rationality and resources, for the examples you mention.
- Animats 2y ago
  Putin says he consulted with Tsar Nicholas II and Catherine the Great. In Putin's view, Russia should re-establish the old Russian empire of the 19th century.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Those do seem to be Putin's primary motivations. Though it's likely he sees access to resources (lithium, natural gas) as "gravy" on top of these concerns.
HDThoreaun 2y ago
Both are because the country is worried about NATO encroachment. Taiwan is a key aspect of the US's plan of boxing china in from the straight of malacca all the way to the channel between korea and japan. Currently all the countries on that border lean US so its conceivable to pull the plan off and completely cut china off from maritime trade. If china controls taiwan the plan doesnt work. Russia is similarly worried about the expansive flatland past the dnipro river. Of course there are other historical reasons for the invasion and war is always a good way to boost the leaders approval so funny business often happens for little geopolitical reason at all.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Russia is similarly worried about the expansive flatland past the Dnipro river. Except it's not - its current regime just pretends to be, for internal and external propaganda purposes. Ditto for NATO encroachment. It's just a bogeyman, nothing more. The sibling comment encapsulates the regime's true motives quite succinctly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42037594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42037594
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    I think outright rejecting the reasoning is wrong. Of course you are right though that other reasons are far more important for putin. China has very legitimate reasons to go to war over the US's island chain policy as they are reliant on imported oil and the US has already shown a willingness to engage in cold war.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      It isn't so much about outright rejecting the regime's stated rationale -- but simply not outright accepting its statements at face value, as many people seem overly ready and willing to do. As if they're forgotten that, in addition to being mean, dictators tend to lie a lot. (This in reference to Ukraine; I don't really think too much about Taiwan).
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      China has very legitimate reasons to go to war over the US's island chain policy as they are reliant on imported oil Though now that I do parse the second half of what you're saying - this is completely nuts of course, and just so happens to be nearly identical to Japan's rationale for attacking the US in WW2.
      - HDThoreaun 2y ago
        Geopolitics often is quite nuts. China isnt going to sit around and wait while theres an existential threat over their head
        aguaviva 2y ago
        Geopolitics often is quite nuts. But if you choose to applaud or legitimize this insanity -- that's on you.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

It’s about power and legacy, not rationality and resources, for the examples you mention.

Animats 2y ago
Putin says he consulted with Tsar Nicholas II and Catherine the Great. In Putin's view, Russia should re-establish the old Russian empire of the 19th century.
aguaviva 2y ago
Those do seem to be Putin's primary motivations. Though it's likely he sees access to resources (lithium, natural gas) as "gravy" on top of these concerns.

HDThoreaun 2y ago

Both are because the country is worried about NATO encroachment. Taiwan is a key aspect of the US's plan of boxing china in from the straight of malacca all the way to the channel between korea and japan. Currently all the countries on that border lean US so its conceivable to pull the plan off and completely cut china off from maritime trade. If china controls taiwan the plan doesnt work. Russia is similarly worried about the expansive flatland past the dnipro river. Of course there are other historical reasons for the invasion and war is always a good way to boost the leaders approval so funny business often happens for little geopolitical reason at all.

aguaviva 2y ago
Russia is similarly worried about the expansive flatland past the Dnipro river. Except it's not - its current regime just pretends to be, for internal and external propaganda purposes. Ditto for NATO encroachment. It's just a bogeyman, nothing more. The sibling comment encapsulates the regime's true motives quite succinctly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42037594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42037594
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  I think outright rejecting the reasoning is wrong. Of course you are right though that other reasons are far more important for putin. China has very legitimate reasons to go to war over the US's island chain policy as they are reliant on imported oil and the US has already shown a willingness to engage in cold war.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    It isn't so much about outright rejecting the regime's stated rationale -- but simply not outright accepting its statements at face value, as many people seem overly ready and willing to do. As if they're forgotten that, in addition to being mean, dictators tend to lie a lot. (This in reference to Ukraine; I don't really think too much about Taiwan).
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    China has very legitimate reasons to go to war over the US's island chain policy as they are reliant on imported oil Though now that I do parse the second half of what you're saying - this is completely nuts of course, and just so happens to be nearly identical to Japan's rationale for attacking the US in WW2.
    - HDThoreaun 2y ago
      Geopolitics often is quite nuts. China isnt going to sit around and wait while theres an existential threat over their head
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        Geopolitics often is quite nuts. But if you choose to applaud or legitimize this insanity -- that's on you.