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You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically disturbing an ancient ruin of some kind. It's unsurprising that this might be the case right off the coast

You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically disturbing an ancient ruin of some kind. It's unsurprising that this might be the case right off the coast too. Still amazing to look at when the water is clear in aerial pictures. As an aside, historical preservation was used as a pretext for artificial housing supply restrictions in Europe much earlier than in the US. Eventually US property owners caught on. Now any old 20th century box is revered like a Haussmannian mansion in Paris.

amarcheschi 2y ago
Here in Pisa a decade or so ago the town started building an underground parking almost in front of the train station. The work had to be stopped soon because they found ancient Roman ships beneath the ground, that sank during a storm. After (many) years a museum with these ships opened and the underground parking works could start again, but it took literally years. The museum is small but quite cool tho, but you have to be passionate about it
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  It makes sense to preserve history, old or less old that is. In pisa I can think of at least two restaurants/cafes that have a partial glass floor with remains of what was there during medieval age
- xenospn 2y ago
  Someone told me (years ago) that any building area in Manhattan must first be screened for Native American burial remains before any work could begin. Not sure if that’s true tho!
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    That seems reasonable doesn’t it? Once it’s gone it’s gone. We have areas like that here in New Zealand. https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/district-plan/plan-changes/plan-change-9/archaeological-sites/ https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/distric...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    In southwest Dublin City, you more or less can’t do anything without hitting Viking stuff. Hence, for instance, this: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/aungier-street-lidl-archaelogy https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/aungier-street-lidl-arch... Probably the world’s only discount supermarket with a built-in museum. Due to heavy construction in the last decade, there is apparently now a shortage of archaeologists; if you find something while excavating, you’re going to need one.
- karmonhardan 2y ago
  I honestly prefer this to the American version, "The governor owns a bunch of real estate that would benefit more from road upgrades than two major rail projects that have been in the works for decades, so he tries to cancel the latter - succeeding with one, delaying the other by 5 years, funneling state funds to Induced DemandLand, and forefeiting hundreds of millions of dollars in free federal grants." If you're in Maryland, please vote Alsobrooks for Senate.
  - trimethylpurine 2y ago
    You speak as if this is just an American issue. If you voted for the railway, whichever governor leads that charge will be part owner in the construction company, the rail company, and the law firm that defends them. And the only reason you'd know that it was possible to vote for him is because the rail company paid for his campaign. That's business as usual everywhere in the world.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    One powerful man's corruption is at least understandable, albeit not excusable. I find it harder to put up with when entire neighborhoods successfully lobby for that kind of crap to the detriment of an entire region and then play it off as though it's some sort of win. What really makes my blood boil is when they so thoroughly market their accomplishments like it's some sort of win that their narrative becomes the prevailing narrative.
    - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
      I find that people who are vocal about such stuff fall into extremes. I guess that's true of extremes in general. They tend to be the noisiest. (The converse isn't necessarily true, of course.) On the one hand, you have NIMBYs who will block good development for arbitrary and self-destructive reasons, or selfishly support such measures, as long as they're in other neighborhoods. On the other hand, you have people who redefine "NIMBY" to mean "things I don't like" and use it as a bludgeon to bully and intimidate. So, if a neighborhood doesn't want a loud outdoor concert venue built in the middle of it, then people from other neighborhoods who want the concern venue will call those who refuse in the neighborhood in question NIMBYs. This is ironic, given that they themselves are behaving exactly like NIMBYs: build the concert venue, but not in my backyard!
baxtr 2y ago
To you first point: that’s one reason why I believe the "there was ancient super civilization before but got completely eradicated" theories don’t make a lot of sense.
DyslexicAtheist 2y ago
> You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically ... reminded me of a trattoria in Lecce, where the new owner just wanted to fix the toilet plumbing before its grand opening, but discovered a tomb from a Greek tribe, the remnants of a Franciscan chapel, etchings from the Knights Templar, and a Roman granary. Who knows, it could've been the best trattoria in all of Italy, but it's another museum now. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/museo-faggiano https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/museo-faggiano
- throwaway894345 2y ago
  That’s a fascinating story, but your framing is perplexing—if it hadn’t become a museum it would have been yet another restaurant and presumably the man was compensated such that he could still have opened his restaurant in another building if he chose? Maybe you meant it humorously and I just missed the joke?
  - ithkuil 2y ago
    perhaps it's possible to combine the two things and have a historical themed trattoria-museum ?
    - romanhn 2y ago
      The good news is that this is the final outcome, basically. While the original site did become a museum, the owner bought a building next door and opened up a trattoria there (albeit almost twenty years after starting the dig). https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20190807-a-trattoria-with-a-hidden-ancient-underworld https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20190807-a-trattoria-with...
  - graeme 2y ago
    "Who knows, maybe...." Indicates a joke frame.
hellectronic 2y ago
Same in Greece too
Hilift 2y ago
The sea level has risen 410 feet since the last glacial maximum. There are likely hundreds of submerged settlements around Europe and the Mediterranean.

amarcheschi 2y ago

Here in Pisa a decade or so ago the town started building an underground parking almost in front of the train station. The work had to be stopped soon because they found ancient Roman ships beneath the ground, that sank during a storm. After (many) years a museum with these ships opened and the underground parking works could start again, but it took literally years. The museum is small but quite cool tho, but you have to be passionate about it

amarcheschi 2y ago
It makes sense to preserve history, old or less old that is. In pisa I can think of at least two restaurants/cafes that have a partial glass floor with remains of what was there during medieval age
xenospn 2y ago
Someone told me (years ago) that any building area in Manhattan must first be screened for Native American burial remains before any work could begin. Not sure if that’s true tho!
- lostlogin 2y ago
  That seems reasonable doesn’t it? Once it’s gone it’s gone. We have areas like that here in New Zealand. https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/district-plan/plan-changes/plan-change-9/archaeological-sites/ https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/distric...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 2y ago
  In southwest Dublin City, you more or less can’t do anything without hitting Viking stuff. Hence, for instance, this: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/aungier-street-lidl-archaelogy https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/aungier-street-lidl-arch... Probably the world’s only discount supermarket with a built-in museum. Due to heavy construction in the last decade, there is apparently now a shortage of archaeologists; if you find something while excavating, you’re going to need one.
karmonhardan 2y ago
I honestly prefer this to the American version, "The governor owns a bunch of real estate that would benefit more from road upgrades than two major rail projects that have been in the works for decades, so he tries to cancel the latter - succeeding with one, delaying the other by 5 years, funneling state funds to Induced DemandLand, and forefeiting hundreds of millions of dollars in free federal grants." If you're in Maryland, please vote Alsobrooks for Senate.
- trimethylpurine 2y ago
  You speak as if this is just an American issue. If you voted for the railway, whichever governor leads that charge will be part owner in the construction company, the rail company, and the law firm that defends them. And the only reason you'd know that it was possible to vote for him is because the rail company paid for his campaign. That's business as usual everywhere in the world.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  One powerful man's corruption is at least understandable, albeit not excusable. I find it harder to put up with when entire neighborhoods successfully lobby for that kind of crap to the detriment of an entire region and then play it off as though it's some sort of win. What really makes my blood boil is when they so thoroughly market their accomplishments like it's some sort of win that their narrative becomes the prevailing narrative.
  - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
    I find that people who are vocal about such stuff fall into extremes. I guess that's true of extremes in general. They tend to be the noisiest. (The converse isn't necessarily true, of course.) On the one hand, you have NIMBYs who will block good development for arbitrary and self-destructive reasons, or selfishly support such measures, as long as they're in other neighborhoods. On the other hand, you have people who redefine "NIMBY" to mean "things I don't like" and use it as a bludgeon to bully and intimidate. So, if a neighborhood doesn't want a loud outdoor concert venue built in the middle of it, then people from other neighborhoods who want the concern venue will call those who refuse in the neighborhood in question NIMBYs. This is ironic, given that they themselves are behaving exactly like NIMBYs: build the concert venue, but not in my backyard!

baxtr 2y ago

To you first point: that’s one reason why I believe the "there was ancient super civilization before but got completely eradicated" theories don’t make a lot of sense.

DyslexicAtheist 2y ago

> You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically ... reminded me of a trattoria in Lecce, where the new owner just wanted to fix the toilet plumbing before its grand opening, but discovered a tomb from a Greek tribe, the remnants of a Franciscan chapel, etchings from the Knights Templar, and a Roman granary. Who knows, it could've been the best trattoria in all of Italy, but it's another museum now. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/museo-faggiano https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/museo-faggiano

throwaway894345 2y ago
That’s a fascinating story, but your framing is perplexing—if it hadn’t become a museum it would have been yet another restaurant and presumably the man was compensated such that he could still have opened his restaurant in another building if he chose? Maybe you meant it humorously and I just missed the joke?
- ithkuil 2y ago
  perhaps it's possible to combine the two things and have a historical themed trattoria-museum ?
  - romanhn 2y ago
    The good news is that this is the final outcome, basically. While the original site did become a museum, the owner bought a building next door and opened up a trattoria there (albeit almost twenty years after starting the dig). https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20190807-a-trattoria-with-a-hidden-ancient-underworld https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20190807-a-trattoria-with...
- graeme 2y ago
  "Who knows, maybe...." Indicates a joke frame.

hellectronic 2y ago

Same in Greece too

Hilift 2y ago

The sea level has risen 410 feet since the last glacial maximum. There are likely hundreds of submerged settlements around Europe and the Mediterranean.