4 ms·

1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless

by nilkn 2y ago

1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now. 2. Taking a few moments to learn to click a button in a car you bought is far from unreasonable, especially when everyone knows going in that a Tesla is not a completely standardized vehicle. The risk posed by this change is orders of magnitude less than the risk imposed by swapping the brake and accelerator pedals, so that is far from a fair or reasonable comparison. 3. You may not appreciate the benefits of the changes that Tesla made, as these things are ultimately subjective, but those changes contributed to the Model Y becoming the best selling vehicle on the planet. Now, if your coworker had rented a car and unexpectedly received a Tesla, I could sympathize more. A car rental company should not rent out non-standard vehicles unexpectedly. However, it’s always the responsibility of the driver to learn to operate the vehicle first before getting on the road and endangering others.

ktosobcy 2y ago
> 1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now. Yet I can switch between very different cars and "it just works" and I dont' have to go through the darn manual each time... weird inni't? > 3. You may not appreciate the benefits of the changes that Tesla made, as these things are ultimately subjective, but those changes contributed to the Model Y becoming the best selling vehicle on the planet. _Something something correlation something something causation_ Have you considered that Tesla mayb got to that point because it was 1) very efficient and 2) Musk has a cult-like following (something akin Apple users making pointless decissions) even DESPITE dumb solution like tablet stuck in the middle of the dashboard or stupid changes like this one?
elzbardico 2y ago
You shouldn't have to read the documentation for basic usage of a vehicle. Basic things like turning signals, lights, windshield wipers, locking and unlocking, windows work basically the same in most vehicles. You are with a friend, and they are not feeling well, with most cars you can just take the wheel and drive as long as needed without having to look at the manual to figure out how to operate basic safety features. I don't hate Elon, neither I hate Tesla, but I don't fucking want an "opinionated" car. Those changes bring no benefit other than saving a few minutes of assembly time and a few parts on the Bill of Materials, and all those benefits are for Tesla, not for me as a customer or a driver.
- CrimsonRain 2y ago
  Plenty of customers and drivers disagree with you. btw, the whole manual, with search option, is in the tablet.
  - bitsandboots 2y ago
    Rather than suggest customers and drivers, and their friends think reading a manual for basic operation should be done as you suggest, I propose it's more likely that one of the following is true: * The owners silently put up with inconveniences. I don't know why the majority of people browse the web without adblockers but if they can put up with that, they can put up with bad car UX * Sunk cost fallacy * Fanboys, which very much will put in more effort to make something work than your average person would
elzbardico 2y ago
> Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now. I think I've got a driver's license that allows me to drive from Toyotas to VW, from Dodges to BYD without having to read the manual for basic usage. And yes, I usually do read the manual even on rented cars, but not because I need to figure out how to operate the turn signals or windshield wipers. If Tesla wants do things their way, we should do like an aviation and require type certification as we do for pilots to be able to operate more complex planes. Let'see how Tesla's marketing would like this.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
CamperBob2 2y ago
Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. BS. The only reason this example is dangerous is because the manufacturer changed things for no reason -- things that were working just fine. See also the death of Anton Yelchin, which occurred because some "UX designer" was bored with the way gearshifts had worked since his or her grandmother learned to drive: https://www.cochranfirm.com/washington-dc/star-trek-actor-killed-by-jeep-under-recall/ https://www.cochranfirm.com/washington-dc/star-trek-actor-ki...
consteval 2y ago
IMO Tesla succeeded despite their obvious driver UX flaws, not because of them. Many consumers were/are willing to look past it.

by nilkn 2y ago

ktosobcy 2y ago

> 1. Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now. Yet I can switch between very different cars and "it just works" and I dont' have to go through the darn manual each time... weird inni't? > 3. You may not appreciate the benefits of the changes that Tesla made, as these things are ultimately subjective, but those changes contributed to the Model Y becoming the best selling vehicle on the planet. _Something something correlation something something causation_ Have you considered that Tesla mayb got to that point because it was 1) very efficient and 2) Musk has a cult-like following (something akin Apple users making pointless decissions) even DESPITE dumb solution like tablet stuck in the middle of the dashboard or stupid changes like this one?

elzbardico 2y ago

You shouldn't have to read the documentation for basic usage of a vehicle. Basic things like turning signals, lights, windshield wipers, locking and unlocking, windows work basically the same in most vehicles. You are with a friend, and they are not feeling well, with most cars you can just take the wheel and drive as long as needed without having to look at the manual to figure out how to operate basic safety features. I don't hate Elon, neither I hate Tesla, but I don't fucking want an "opinionated" car. Those changes bring no benefit other than saving a few minutes of assembly time and a few parts on the Bill of Materials, and all those benefits are for Tesla, not for me as a customer or a driver.

CrimsonRain 2y ago
Plenty of customers and drivers disagree with you. btw, the whole manual, with search option, is in the tablet.
- bitsandboots 2y ago
  Rather than suggest customers and drivers, and their friends think reading a manual for basic operation should be done as you suggest, I propose it's more likely that one of the following is true: * The owners silently put up with inconveniences. I don't know why the majority of people browse the web without adblockers but if they can put up with that, they can put up with bad car UX * Sunk cost fallacy * Fanboys, which very much will put in more effort to make something work than your average person would

elzbardico 2y ago

> Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. That’s careless, irresponsible, and endangers others. If they had hurt or killed someone, they would’ve been prosecuted and would possibly be in jail right now. I think I've got a driver's license that allows me to drive from Toyotas to VW, from Dodges to BYD without having to read the manual for basic usage. And yes, I usually do read the manual even on rented cars, but not because I need to figure out how to operate the turn signals or windshield wipers. If Tesla wants do things their way, we should do like an aviation and require type certification as we do for pilots to be able to operate more complex planes. Let'see how Tesla's marketing would like this.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

CamperBob2 2y ago

Operating a heavy, dangerous piece of machinery in the field without learning how to operate it first is most certainly the operator’s fault. BS. The only reason this example is dangerous is because the manufacturer changed things for no reason -- things that were working just fine. See also the death of Anton Yelchin, which occurred because some "UX designer" was bored with the way gearshifts had worked since his or her grandmother learned to drive: https://www.cochranfirm.com/washington-dc/star-trek-actor-killed-by-jeep-under-recall/ https://www.cochranfirm.com/washington-dc/star-trek-actor-ki...

consteval 2y ago

IMO Tesla succeeded despite their obvious driver UX flaws, not because of them. Many consumers were/are willing to look past it.