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> if most devs (especially web devs and/or javascript people) knew about Gnome's excellent javascript support [...] Blame the Gnome community. They revolted w

by cxr 2y ago

> if most devs (especially web devs and/or javascript people) knew about Gnome's excellent javascript support [...] Blame the Gnome community. They revolted when key players announced a strategy/campaign to put resources behind getting the word out and doubling down on the developer experience to promote JS as the recommended alternative to app development in C for Gnome. They acquiesced, backpedaled a bit, and then within a year we got Electron and all the poor development practices associated with NPM gained the main foothold in the JS space, which was already destined to spill out of the browser, anyway. We could have inculcated a generation of developers who looked to Firefox and Gnome for how to do app development in JS. Instead we got stuff like `npm install is-odd` and Babel and Webpack.

bsimpson 2y ago
Babel and Webpack got popular because people wanted to try JSX, but build tools were not common in for web developers at the time. Pete Hunt gave a talk I found somewhere online about Webpack, and then I gave a talk about it at the first React Conf. No amount of "Linux lets you write apps in JavaScript" was going to keep transpilers/bundlers from being a thing. Even after browsers started shipping HTTP Push, people found it's still more network efficient (at least for transient users) to bundle. Plus, there are privacy/security concerns with relying on public CDNs for libraries, which would be the next-best alternative.
- cxr 2y ago
  You're talking about browser-based Web apps. I'm talking about Electron desktop apps and NPM-based programs. And I'm not calling out "bundlers". You said that. I mentioned Babel and Webpack in the context of software that is crummy. Previously: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41899671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41899671> > You're having a terrible experience because you're interacting with terrible software. It doesn't matter that it's written in JS (or quasi-JS). Rewrite these implementations all in other languages, and the terrible experience will remain.

by cxr 2y ago

bsimpson 2y ago

Babel and Webpack got popular because people wanted to try JSX, but build tools were not common in for web developers at the time. Pete Hunt gave a talk I found somewhere online about Webpack, and then I gave a talk about it at the first React Conf. No amount of "Linux lets you write apps in JavaScript" was going to keep transpilers/bundlers from being a thing. Even after browsers started shipping HTTP Push, people found it's still more network efficient (at least for transient users) to bundle. Plus, there are privacy/security concerns with relying on public CDNs for libraries, which would be the next-best alternative.

cxr 2y ago
You're talking about browser-based Web apps. I'm talking about Electron desktop apps and NPM-based programs. And I'm not calling out "bundlers". You said that. I mentioned Babel and Webpack in the context of software that is crummy. Previously: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41899671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41899671> > You're having a terrible experience because you're interacting with terrible software. It doesn't matter that it's written in JS (or quasi-JS). Rewrite these implementations all in other languages, and the terrible experience will remain.