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Both of my cars from different makers have a ton of things which don't have a physical button. Configuring the colors of the lights in the interior, setting res

Both of my cars from different makers have a ton of things which don't have a physical button. Configuring the colors of the lights in the interior, setting restrictions on secondary keys, changing the doorpad settings, configuring navigation quick saves, configuring auto lock on walk away, whether the car moves the seats back for easier getting in and out, how much it moves the seats for that, toggling liftgate gestures, setting the default settings for ADAS systems, configuring if the mirrors automatically tuck in or not, configuring the puddle lights, configuring charging settings, configuring stereo equalizer and other deeper settings, rear occupant alert systems, configuring how long it waits to have the lights on, defaults for auto-high beam and its sensitivity, configuring remote start options, deeper setting options for drive modes, configuring cross traffic alerting, deeper route planning, etc. Probably still a hundred more options I haven't listed here.

miltonlost 2y ago
And so you can have physical buttons (left, right, up, down, enter) and a screen with a menu for all those options.
- vel0city 2y ago
  How is that better? Press press press press press press press press press press press press press press press cool just set one setting. Versus tap settings, flick scroll, tap to set.
  - valval 2y ago
    It’s not. I think the people in this thread already have their minds made up.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    In terms of doing it while driving, I'll take the buttons instead of a touch screen. I can press a button without looking at a screen.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      One shouldn't be adjusting practically any of those things listed while driving. That makes having it as a physical control moot. And having physical buttons to navigate a selector on the screen is still a terrible thing to do when driving anyways. My rule of thumb is if it's on the center console I shouldn't be messing with it when the car is in motion. If I'm supposed to mess with it while moving it's on the wheel or immediately around it. And tbh between my car with a zillion buttons I shouldn't be pressing while driving and a small screen and the car where most of those functions I shouldn't mess with while driving are on the screen I prefer the screen. Far bigger screen to quickly glance at the maps when driving instead of a smaller one that's harder to see. Less space to actually see the media collection when I'm stopped and can safely navigate it.
      - giancarlostoro 2y ago
        That's not always the case, some things on the center console include skipping songs, flipping between audio sources, etc. If you need to switch to an emergency radio station from bluetooth, its drastically more complicated because there's no physical buttons anymore.
        vel0city 2y ago
        > skipping songs That's on the steering wheel on practically every car I've had for over 20 years of model years. You probably shouldn't be flipping between audio sources while driving. But even then, I've had change audio source as an option on steering wheels before. Generally, you shouldn't be fiddling with the radio when the vehicle is moving, you should be driving. Keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road, not on the stereo in the center console. FWIW, in pretty much every car I've had since a 2012 model year I've been able to press a button on the wheel and say "tune to am 1510" and it'll tune that without having to take my hands or eyes off the wheel. Far preferrable than trying to look over at the radio to find the AM button again and figure out which knob is the tuning dial and then look to see I'm tuning to the right station.
        2y ago
- robocat 2y ago
  > left, right, up, down, enter Every UI using "simple" menu button navigation has been horrific in my experience. Remote controls, handsets, TV configuration menus, yadda yadda.
  - NeoTar 2y ago
    Discoverability is also an issue touch screens can help with - I enjoy that in the settings app on iPhone (I believe android is the same) one can search for a setting, rather than try to guess where a given setting has been placed.
    - Moru 2y ago
      But I don't want discoverability when my windshield suddenly fogs up and I can't see anything. I want to be able to just reach out and adjust the airflow without even thinking about it when I start noticing the fog in the first place. Last time I had something useful was in my Volvo 740. After that it has been getting worse and worse. Even physical nobs can be bad, just round and smooth, without any physical notch that snows what direction it points.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        In regards to dealing with windows fogging, I prefer the system in my car that automatically detects conditions where it might fog and adjusts itself accordingly. On top of that the car has a physical max defog button close to the actual driver controls.
      - NeoTar 2y ago
        Oh, I completely agree - everything important should be accessible and intuitive - typically that does mean a well-placed physical control. But there are so many settings on a contemporary car that it would be impractical to have a switch for all of them, and even if they were, if it's something you'd like to change once in a blue-moon being able to search for that setting is really useful. I don't know if this makes great sense as an example, but, say you're travelling from the UK to France (or USA to Mexico?) and want to have your speedometer show km/h rather than miles/hour. That's not a setting which should have a switch, but may be something useful.
Crespyl 2y ago
Surely none of that requires a touchscreen though? Just basic generic navigation and selection buttons will work fine.
- vel0city 2y ago
  It doesn't require it to be a touchscreen, sure, but it practically requires it to be a screen. But I'd much rather just quickly tap a checkbox instead of press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press navigating the giant array of settings. And then on top of that people want AA/CarPlay which is designed around touch inputs first, so you're going to have that screen be touch anyways. None of that should really be changed by the driver when the car is in motion, and you'd have to manage the deep navigation of a bunch of button presses on a screen anyways so arguing you'd be less distracted is a moot point.
  - Moru 2y ago
    Speaking of things not supposed to be done while driving: We tested the Android car GPS thing this summer. The passenger is usually in charge of the GPS so the driver can concentrate on driving. But this darn thing says something like "touch input disabled while driving". So we still have to stop the car to do adjustments on the GPS. Very handy on the Autobahn, you can't just pull over and park... Who does things like this? Sadly all other GPS navigators we used to use has gone downhill to the state of unusable so this is what we turned out using all vacation.
    - guappa 2y ago
      Get osmand on a phone and be done with it :D
      - Moru 2y ago
        Will try it again, was a while ago. Maybe it actually works on my new phone, thanks :-)
kreyenborgi 2y ago
But that's stuff you don't need to touch while driving. We only need knobs for crucial things like fog lights, turn signals and skipping podcast ads.
- vel0city 2y ago
  The standard I was replying to was: > I haven't found any pieces of the car functionality Any functionality. I agree though. Any critical driving function should be physical. Like the podcast ad skip button on the steering wheel, one of the most important control components in a modern car.
bluefirebrand 2y ago
Do people actually use most of this stuff or is it just cruft? My guess is it is junk that almost no one ever looks at nevermind actually uses or changes with any frequency I'm talking about important, everyday functions of a vehicle, like the radio, GPS, heating, cruise control, etc
- vel0city 2y ago
  I agree, controls drivers should be expected to use when the car is in motion should be physical and on/immediately around the steering wheel. GPS? As in you're going to have like a whole QWERTY keyboard as physical keys or something for punching in addresses? I've got no problem with practically everything about the navigation be on a touchscreen, I shouldn't be messing with it while the car is moving. Just make it big. Radio/stereo should have physical controls on the steering wheel. You shouldn't really be messing with the center console while driving. It's not like you should be swapping CD's or navigating folders on the USB drive or whatever. Anything past next/previous and volume is probably too much. Cruise control should be on the steering wheel or stalks as well. It's 2024. Thermostats have been a thing for a long time. Cars can make us comfortable without having to mess with the settings every five minutes. Every time I'm in a car that doesn't have auto climate I hate it, have to constantly futz with it to make it actually comfortable. Meanwhile even my 2000 Accord had a decent auto climate that I practically never had to touch. But whatever, put the basic AC controls and what not as physical controls. The only one I care to absolutely be physical is max defrost. But my point is, there are a ton of controls you're possibly going to use sometimes, even if only to originally set up the car how you want it. It's asinine thinking every function of a modern car can have some physical switch and toggle to it. Loads of cars would look like the controls on the Space Shuttle if you forced every feature available to be assigned to a physical switch.

miltonlost 2y ago

And so you can have physical buttons (left, right, up, down, enter) and a screen with a menu for all those options.

vel0city 2y ago
How is that better? Press press press press press press press press press press press press press press press cool just set one setting. Versus tap settings, flick scroll, tap to set.
- valval 2y ago
  It’s not. I think the people in this thread already have their minds made up.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  In terms of doing it while driving, I'll take the buttons instead of a touch screen. I can press a button without looking at a screen.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    One shouldn't be adjusting practically any of those things listed while driving. That makes having it as a physical control moot. And having physical buttons to navigate a selector on the screen is still a terrible thing to do when driving anyways. My rule of thumb is if it's on the center console I shouldn't be messing with it when the car is in motion. If I'm supposed to mess with it while moving it's on the wheel or immediately around it. And tbh between my car with a zillion buttons I shouldn't be pressing while driving and a small screen and the car where most of those functions I shouldn't mess with while driving are on the screen I prefer the screen. Far bigger screen to quickly glance at the maps when driving instead of a smaller one that's harder to see. Less space to actually see the media collection when I'm stopped and can safely navigate it.
    - giancarlostoro 2y ago
      That's not always the case, some things on the center console include skipping songs, flipping between audio sources, etc. If you need to switch to an emergency radio station from bluetooth, its drastically more complicated because there's no physical buttons anymore.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        > skipping songs That's on the steering wheel on practically every car I've had for over 20 years of model years. You probably shouldn't be flipping between audio sources while driving. But even then, I've had change audio source as an option on steering wheels before. Generally, you shouldn't be fiddling with the radio when the vehicle is moving, you should be driving. Keep your hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road, not on the stereo in the center console. FWIW, in pretty much every car I've had since a 2012 model year I've been able to press a button on the wheel and say "tune to am 1510" and it'll tune that without having to take my hands or eyes off the wheel. Far preferrable than trying to look over at the radio to find the AM button again and figure out which knob is the tuning dial and then look to see I'm tuning to the right station.
        2y ago
robocat 2y ago
> left, right, up, down, enter Every UI using "simple" menu button navigation has been horrific in my experience. Remote controls, handsets, TV configuration menus, yadda yadda.
- NeoTar 2y ago
  Discoverability is also an issue touch screens can help with - I enjoy that in the settings app on iPhone (I believe android is the same) one can search for a setting, rather than try to guess where a given setting has been placed.
  - Moru 2y ago
    But I don't want discoverability when my windshield suddenly fogs up and I can't see anything. I want to be able to just reach out and adjust the airflow without even thinking about it when I start noticing the fog in the first place. Last time I had something useful was in my Volvo 740. After that it has been getting worse and worse. Even physical nobs can be bad, just round and smooth, without any physical notch that snows what direction it points.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      In regards to dealing with windows fogging, I prefer the system in my car that automatically detects conditions where it might fog and adjusts itself accordingly. On top of that the car has a physical max defog button close to the actual driver controls.
    - NeoTar 2y ago
      Oh, I completely agree - everything important should be accessible and intuitive - typically that does mean a well-placed physical control. But there are so many settings on a contemporary car that it would be impractical to have a switch for all of them, and even if they were, if it's something you'd like to change once in a blue-moon being able to search for that setting is really useful. I don't know if this makes great sense as an example, but, say you're travelling from the UK to France (or USA to Mexico?) and want to have your speedometer show km/h rather than miles/hour. That's not a setting which should have a switch, but may be something useful.

Crespyl 2y ago

Surely none of that requires a touchscreen though? Just basic generic navigation and selection buttons will work fine.

vel0city 2y ago
It doesn't require it to be a touchscreen, sure, but it practically requires it to be a screen. But I'd much rather just quickly tap a checkbox instead of press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press navigating the giant array of settings. And then on top of that people want AA/CarPlay which is designed around touch inputs first, so you're going to have that screen be touch anyways. None of that should really be changed by the driver when the car is in motion, and you'd have to manage the deep navigation of a bunch of button presses on a screen anyways so arguing you'd be less distracted is a moot point.
- Moru 2y ago
  Speaking of things not supposed to be done while driving: We tested the Android car GPS thing this summer. The passenger is usually in charge of the GPS so the driver can concentrate on driving. But this darn thing says something like "touch input disabled while driving". So we still have to stop the car to do adjustments on the GPS. Very handy on the Autobahn, you can't just pull over and park... Who does things like this? Sadly all other GPS navigators we used to use has gone downhill to the state of unusable so this is what we turned out using all vacation.
  - guappa 2y ago
    Get osmand on a phone and be done with it :D
    - Moru 2y ago
      Will try it again, was a while ago. Maybe it actually works on my new phone, thanks :-)

kreyenborgi 2y ago

But that's stuff you don't need to touch while driving. We only need knobs for crucial things like fog lights, turn signals and skipping podcast ads.

vel0city 2y ago
The standard I was replying to was: > I haven't found any pieces of the car functionality Any functionality. I agree though. Any critical driving function should be physical. Like the podcast ad skip button on the steering wheel, one of the most important control components in a modern car.

bluefirebrand 2y ago

Do people actually use most of this stuff or is it just cruft? My guess is it is junk that almost no one ever looks at nevermind actually uses or changes with any frequency I'm talking about important, everyday functions of a vehicle, like the radio, GPS, heating, cruise control, etc

vel0city 2y ago
I agree, controls drivers should be expected to use when the car is in motion should be physical and on/immediately around the steering wheel. GPS? As in you're going to have like a whole QWERTY keyboard as physical keys or something for punching in addresses? I've got no problem with practically everything about the navigation be on a touchscreen, I shouldn't be messing with it while the car is moving. Just make it big. Radio/stereo should have physical controls on the steering wheel. You shouldn't really be messing with the center console while driving. It's not like you should be swapping CD's or navigating folders on the USB drive or whatever. Anything past next/previous and volume is probably too much. Cruise control should be on the steering wheel or stalks as well. It's 2024. Thermostats have been a thing for a long time. Cars can make us comfortable without having to mess with the settings every five minutes. Every time I'm in a car that doesn't have auto climate I hate it, have to constantly futz with it to make it actually comfortable. Meanwhile even my 2000 Accord had a decent auto climate that I practically never had to touch. But whatever, put the basic AC controls and what not as physical controls. The only one I care to absolutely be physical is max defrost. But my point is, there are a ton of controls you're possibly going to use sometimes, even if only to originally set up the car how you want it. It's asinine thinking every function of a modern car can have some physical switch and toggle to it. Loads of cars would look like the controls on the Space Shuttle if you forced every feature available to be assigned to a physical switch.