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A touchscreen with an entire software engineering department behind its software is cheaper than buttons?
by jsd1982 2y ago
A touchscreen with an entire software engineering department behind its software is cheaper than buttons?
- lomase 2y agoThe hardware buttons need a system, microcontroller with software or whatever, to manage its state just like the screen.
- MostlyStable 2y agoEvidence suggests that their engineering teams are either not that big or not that good given how garbage most vehicle UI/software is, and it's a price you pay (mostly) once per touchscreen software design, which will span several models, where as the component + install cost needs to be paid for every vehicle in perpetuity.
- daniel_reetz 2y agoIt's a little deeper than this, software for each module is typically provided by a tier 1 or tier 2 supplier according to a spec provided by the OEM. Sometimes the tier 1 or tier 2 supplier is also subbing out the software or stuck with some system on chip that sucks. So for a made-up example, GM wants to build a smart dash in the latest SUV, maybe Bosch or Continental has one with a SoC inside and their own software hell. OEM works with supplier to integrate, bugfix, skin, and customize. But they don't write it from scratch.
- caskstrength 2y agoYes, and suppliers outsource the actual development and testing to cut costs even further.
- ahartmetz 2y agoAFAIK, car manufacturers want to bring more software in house as a core competency, which is probably good because the "Tier 1"s are generally even worse at software than them and have worse aligned incentives.
- ahartmetz 2y agoIf you haven't been there, you cannot imagine how bad most car manufacturer's software departments are. They are big, expensive, and crawling with bad practices. Management usually doesn't have a clue about software, so there's a lot of maneuvering with goals being anything but producing good software quickly and cheaply.
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoYep symptom of an org that sees software as a very expensive cost centre rather than a key engineering asset.
- tikhonj 2y agoThe fact that software is bad is not evidence that it was built by a small team or had a low budget. A depressing amount of high-budget, large-team software is awful.
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoThis is absolutely true, but if you scratch the surface of teams like that what you'll usually find is terrible management more interested in shuffling paperwork and CYA than in quality and excellence.
- Gare 2y agoGiven economies of scale, yes
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- BurningFrog 2y agoIf there are enough buttons, yes. Toyota makes 10 million cars a year. Another angle is that you can add/remove/relabel software buttons later. Hardware decisions are much more final.
- dwelch91 2y agoWhen I worked at Toyota (well, NUMMI) in the '90s, the engineers from Toyota Japan that told me: "I'd kill my mother to save $1 on each car produced." Yes, at Toyota's scale, $1/car is a lot of money.
- izacus 2y agoRemember that someone needs to manufacture those buttons, install them in the factory, stock them for replacement and keep them around several countries in the world in warehouses for when they break. Now replace all that with a single screen and suddenly costs savings everywhere \o/
- Triphibian 2y agoLet's not forget you can charge a mint to replace the half-assed Ipad you have jammed into the dashboard when it goes bad.
- robocat 2y agoWhy do people think this? Can you find any annual report from a car manufacturer that shows parts sales contributing significantly to profit? Yes, dealerships make money from servicing and parts: "the service and parts department, which accounts for the other 49.6% of the dealership's gross profits". But a car manufacturer doesn't capture that, so a manufacturer has no financial incentive to increase profits for dealerships.
- Triphibian 2y agoWell, I hope to god AC Delco makes at least some profit from selling parts.
- robocat 2y agoACDelco is an American automotive parts brand owned by General Motors It isn't clear that AC Delco would have any incentive to supply bad parts so that AC Delco could sell replacements and profit. FYI Toyota owns an equivalent parts supplier called Denso.
- dghlsakjg 2y agoYes. The buttons still need to be programmed to do something so the cost savings isn't really on the software team. Having a standard touchscreen that you can slap into any of your cars, and update OTA is huge.
- vel0city 2y agoYou make the software button once and it's there for the many millions of cars. You have to actually manufacture and stick in the many millions of buttons otherwise. Besides the actual action was going to be software on the bus anyways. Your window switch hasn't been directly connected to a motor in decades. It's sending a "window down" message to the bus that goes to the window actuator unit that then drives the motor. You're still paying someone to make it computerized anyways, you were going to pay a team of designers to draw it up and make the plans for the physical switch as well. The screen was going to be there anyways due to backup camera requirements and because consumers want AA/Carplay.
- collinmanderson 2y ago> The screen was going to be there anyways due to backup camera requirements This. Backup camera requires a large screen leaving little room for buttons.
- zerd 2y agoMy car has buttons and a big enough screen for back up camera.
- 71bw 2y ago>This. Backup camera requires a large screen leaving little room for buttons. ?????? A Chrysler Town & Country has a 6-ish inch screen and still easily runs a backup camera feed which is more than clear enough for anybody.
- nomel 2y agoThis makes the incorrect assumption that the infotainment system would be removed, reducing the cost of the engineering. Adding a virtual button in an infotainment system is much cheaper than a physical button. Especially since the most cost effective routing of those physical buttons would be to the infotainment system that is going to be there regardless.