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It's interesting. I resonate with all of this. Yet I somehow feel confident that we're in the process of turning a corner and things are on the upswing. Someth

It's interesting. I resonate with all of this. Yet I somehow feel confident that we're in the process of turning a corner and things are on the upswing. Something I don't get the sense you have.

eesmith 2y ago
What is the basis of your confidence? When tech companies say the need more power, and want more coal plants, and more nuclear reactors, and promise the techno-fantasy of working fusion power in 10 years, why should they be able to out-compete the de-carbonizing the rest of the economy? When you look at the decades of promises to cut CO2 emissions, only to see them go by the wayside, what do you think has changed? When you read about coral-reef bleaching, and the warming of coastal waters causing lobster, scallops, and clams to die off New England, and continued massive over-fishing causing billions of snow crabs to go missing off Alaska - what will make things better? When there are only two main phone OSes, it's easy for the EU to consider requiring spyware on all phones ("ChatControl"). When there's tech lock-in to the US, such that reports from the UK and Germany are calling out the obvious data sovereignty issues, and even the US is saying Microsoft is too powerful to face real consequences for its security problems - how will that be fixed? How do you solve the Florida insurance problem? When will the Ogallala go dry? How long until the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation collapses? I could go on.
- AbstractH24 2y ago
  I think the biggest basis is despite the fact that life felt bleak and problems insurmountable in 2020/21, by and large society has overcome and returned to normal. Not entirely, but as a Newyorker at least I can confidently say October 2024 seemed a lot more similar to October 2019 than October 2020. After experiencing that, I feel confident that on a societal level most things can be overcome and most people in society will find ways to adapt. Not always all, but a majority.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    > I can confidently say October 2024 seemed a lot more similar to October 2019 than October 2020. Which is exactly the problem. We need to cut down on a lot of bad practices, which we've known about since the Kyoto Protocol back in 1992. Instead, we continue our trend of producing more pollution (including greenhouse gasses), destroying the environment, killing species, and doing NOTHING to prepare ourselves for the future we know is coming. Just like in October 2019.
- squeegee_scream 2y ago
  Man… fuuuuuck. I appreciate you summarizing the majority of bad stuff we’ve created and are exacerbating. I was already familiar or aware of all that but this will help me communicate with others, “here read this person’s comments” I have young children. At this point I hope they have a society, fuck having a “better life”, that ain’t happening. But it does force me to focus on what’s important. If we regress to a lifestyle comparable to the first third of the 20th century, we can handle that. We’ll miss regularly working electricity and indoor plumbing but you gets used to it quick. Just go camping for a week It certainly sucks, and it’s frustrating that it isn’t our fault.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    > We’ll miss regularly working electricity and indoor plumbing but you gets used to it quick. Just go camping for a week Think more like Asheville, which has running water again, several weeks after the hurricane, but the water isn't yet potable and likely won't be until December. Consumerism has hooked itself tightly around our hedonic treadmill. Capitalism since the environmental movement of the 1960s has figured out we mostly care about problems we see, so has done its best to hide all the environmental and labor problems and make it disconnected from a single person's actions.

It's interesting. I resonate with all of this. Yet I somehow feel confident that we're in the process of turning a corner and things are on the upswing. Something I don't get the sense you have.

eesmith 2y ago

What is the basis of your confidence? When tech companies say the need more power, and want more coal plants, and more nuclear reactors, and promise the techno-fantasy of working fusion power in 10 years, why should they be able to out-compete the de-carbonizing the rest of the economy? When you look at the decades of promises to cut CO2 emissions, only to see them go by the wayside, what do you think has changed? When you read about coral-reef bleaching, and the warming of coastal waters causing lobster, scallops, and clams to die off New England, and continued massive over-fishing causing billions of snow crabs to go missing off Alaska - what will make things better? When there are only two main phone OSes, it's easy for the EU to consider requiring spyware on all phones ("ChatControl"). When there's tech lock-in to the US, such that reports from the UK and Germany are calling out the obvious data sovereignty issues, and even the US is saying Microsoft is too powerful to face real consequences for its security problems - how will that be fixed? How do you solve the Florida insurance problem? When will the Ogallala go dry? How long until the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation collapses? I could go on.

AbstractH24 2y ago
I think the biggest basis is despite the fact that life felt bleak and problems insurmountable in 2020/21, by and large society has overcome and returned to normal. Not entirely, but as a Newyorker at least I can confidently say October 2024 seemed a lot more similar to October 2019 than October 2020. After experiencing that, I feel confident that on a societal level most things can be overcome and most people in society will find ways to adapt. Not always all, but a majority.
- eesmith 2y ago
  > I can confidently say October 2024 seemed a lot more similar to October 2019 than October 2020. Which is exactly the problem. We need to cut down on a lot of bad practices, which we've known about since the Kyoto Protocol back in 1992. Instead, we continue our trend of producing more pollution (including greenhouse gasses), destroying the environment, killing species, and doing NOTHING to prepare ourselves for the future we know is coming. Just like in October 2019.
squeegee_scream 2y ago
Man… fuuuuuck. I appreciate you summarizing the majority of bad stuff we’ve created and are exacerbating. I was already familiar or aware of all that but this will help me communicate with others, “here read this person’s comments” I have young children. At this point I hope they have a society, fuck having a “better life”, that ain’t happening. But it does force me to focus on what’s important. If we regress to a lifestyle comparable to the first third of the 20th century, we can handle that. We’ll miss regularly working electricity and indoor plumbing but you gets used to it quick. Just go camping for a week It certainly sucks, and it’s frustrating that it isn’t our fault.
- eesmith 2y ago
  > We’ll miss regularly working electricity and indoor plumbing but you gets used to it quick. Just go camping for a week Think more like Asheville, which has running water again, several weeks after the hurricane, but the water isn't yet potable and likely won't be until December. Consumerism has hooked itself tightly around our hedonic treadmill. Capitalism since the environmental movement of the 1960s has figured out we mostly care about problems we see, so has done its best to hide all the environmental and labor problems and make it disconnected from a single person's actions.