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In other industries that might be ok (though not for the hundreds of thousands of people without jobs), but not this one. It would be like the US military being

In other industries that might be ok (though not for the hundreds of thousands of people without jobs), but not this one. It would be like the US military being reliant on other countries, and potentially its main adversary (China), for its most advanced weapons.

r053bud 2y ago
Then why not nationalize it?
- LadyCailin 2y ago
  Exactly. Industries that are too big to fail shouldn’t be allowed to exist in general (anti trust regulation should see to that), but if that must happen for some reason, then it must be nationalized, or at least very tightly regulated, like utilities are.
- treis 2y ago
  It's not like the nationalized companies do that great. The USPS is in perpetual crisis and eventually the Federal Government is going to be on the hook for 10s of billions in pensions.
  - ctoth 2y ago
    > ON the hook Weird to see this framing for something that was promised as a condition of employment. The USPS gets me my mail regularly. Not sure what else it should be doing. And yes, paying people pensions you promised them is a good thing to do and has nothing to do with mismanagement. Taking the money you had already promised for pensions to instead pay shareholders or executives seems to be mismanagement to me.
  - sgarland 2y ago
    The USPS is only in perpetual crisis because people who are deeply against public goods passed a law requiring them to pre-fund retirement benefits 75 years in advance [0] which is utterly ridiculous. [0]: https://apwu.org/usps-fairness-act https://apwu.org/usps-fairness-act
  - t-3 2y ago
    Nationalized industries are nationalized because they shouldn't have to care about profits and losses beyond a basic duty to use resources efficiently. The existence of the nationalized service is deemed to be so important that it must be run by the state to prevent any possible instability or interruptions. With that being said, the situation of the USPS is not simple - it's been suffering political interference from elected officials for literally centuries. A very good example of why giving too much oversight power to elected officials and having too many political appointees is very dangerous.
  - dahart 2y ago
    Do you have any other examples? The USPS isn’t a nationalized company, it was always a branch of the government. It seems like the USPS is only in crisis because it has long been a political target with especially conservatives trying to sabotage it in order to demonstrate the downsides of public services. But the requirement to pre-fund retiree benefits was eliminated in 2022, is that what you’re referring to with the 10s of billions in pensions? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Service_Reform_Act_of_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Service_Reform_Act_of_2...
stego-tech 2y ago
If something is critical to National Security or Human Survival, it should be Nationalized. So if Intel, or Boeing, or electric companies, or ISPs, or banks are really that necessary to the American Government that letting them fail would jeopardize our national security, then those entities shouldn’t be publicly-traded or privately-owned enterprises, full-stop. Unfortunately, that policy is wholly incompatible with the current wealth-extraction and funneling model of the present-day economy, and that’s why it won’t happen until it’s so irreparably broken that the entire global status quo shifts to adjust.
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  Look at the military industrial complex. Nationalizing intel will turn it into the semiconductor industrial complex.
  - undersuit 2y ago
    The US military industrial complex isn't nationalized.
    - ninetyninenine 2y ago
      It is. But if you want to be pedantic it’s both nationalized and private. It depends on whether you’re referring to the military or industry. When you create these hybrids of business and government, corruption is inevitable.
      - undersuit 2y ago
        If I was referring to the military I wouldn't have answered.
        ninetyninenine 2y ago
        Sure. I'm just saying your answer is incorrect. Doesn't matter whether you would or wouldn't of answered. You're completely wrong and you wrote a statement that is utterly false.

r053bud 2y ago

Then why not nationalize it?

LadyCailin 2y ago
Exactly. Industries that are too big to fail shouldn’t be allowed to exist in general (anti trust regulation should see to that), but if that must happen for some reason, then it must be nationalized, or at least very tightly regulated, like utilities are.
treis 2y ago
It's not like the nationalized companies do that great. The USPS is in perpetual crisis and eventually the Federal Government is going to be on the hook for 10s of billions in pensions.
- ctoth 2y ago
  > ON the hook Weird to see this framing for something that was promised as a condition of employment. The USPS gets me my mail regularly. Not sure what else it should be doing. And yes, paying people pensions you promised them is a good thing to do and has nothing to do with mismanagement. Taking the money you had already promised for pensions to instead pay shareholders or executives seems to be mismanagement to me.
- sgarland 2y ago
  The USPS is only in perpetual crisis because people who are deeply against public goods passed a law requiring them to pre-fund retirement benefits 75 years in advance [0] which is utterly ridiculous. [0]: https://apwu.org/usps-fairness-act https://apwu.org/usps-fairness-act
- t-3 2y ago
  Nationalized industries are nationalized because they shouldn't have to care about profits and losses beyond a basic duty to use resources efficiently. The existence of the nationalized service is deemed to be so important that it must be run by the state to prevent any possible instability or interruptions. With that being said, the situation of the USPS is not simple - it's been suffering political interference from elected officials for literally centuries. A very good example of why giving too much oversight power to elected officials and having too many political appointees is very dangerous.
- dahart 2y ago
  Do you have any other examples? The USPS isn’t a nationalized company, it was always a branch of the government. It seems like the USPS is only in crisis because it has long been a political target with especially conservatives trying to sabotage it in order to demonstrate the downsides of public services. But the requirement to pre-fund retiree benefits was eliminated in 2022, is that what you’re referring to with the 10s of billions in pensions? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Service_Reform_Act_of_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Service_Reform_Act_of_2...

stego-tech 2y ago

If something is critical to National Security or Human Survival, it should be Nationalized. So if Intel, or Boeing, or electric companies, or ISPs, or banks are really that necessary to the American Government that letting them fail would jeopardize our national security, then those entities shouldn’t be publicly-traded or privately-owned enterprises, full-stop. Unfortunately, that policy is wholly incompatible with the current wealth-extraction and funneling model of the present-day economy, and that’s why it won’t happen until it’s so irreparably broken that the entire global status quo shifts to adjust.

ninetyninenine 2y ago
Look at the military industrial complex. Nationalizing intel will turn it into the semiconductor industrial complex.
- undersuit 2y ago
  The US military industrial complex isn't nationalized.
  - ninetyninenine 2y ago
    It is. But if you want to be pedantic it’s both nationalized and private. It depends on whether you’re referring to the military or industry. When you create these hybrids of business and government, corruption is inevitable.
    - undersuit 2y ago
      If I was referring to the military I wouldn't have answered.
      - ninetyninenine 2y ago
        Sure. I'm just saying your answer is incorrect. Doesn't matter whether you would or wouldn't of answered. You're completely wrong and you wrote a statement that is utterly false.